# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 348
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2022, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7005 "2022-08-06T00:32:44Z")
Stir the pot. > **[Ukraine: military endangering civilians by locating forces in residential...](https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/ukraine-military-endangering-civilians-locating-forces-residential-areas-new)** > > We are Amnesty International UK. We are ordinary people from across the world standing up for humanity and human rights. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2022, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7006 "2022-08-06T00:50:29Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > As requested, I will not reply to that bunch of stuff. > But feel free to continue if allowed. Folks here always have interesting things to say. I do not feel it necessary to silence them. I’ve started a thread in The BBQ Pit [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166), so as to no longer hijack this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2022, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7007 "2022-08-06T01:13:09Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > I have been seeing some spitballing that the North Koreans might send troop to help Russia for the smallest of honoraria. Great fun, thousands of PDRK troops deserting in eastern Europe. That would be epic. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2022, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7008 "2022-08-06T01:41:34Z")
Mauldin covered it 80 years ago. [![](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/4WsHika1jRnAyMVlQYRejkE17AvsUVmzfRnplSLmfEO6kz2InCi95HB6P8Cv0RdW9BvOGxzZHbhGu5VVrInf3ZJXfSNayKu8k1MwwKlvmAuhFJ_FWkGGGfFBZwMmSwqWaH7ITk_SWQ=s0) ](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/4WsHika1jRnAyMVlQYRejkE17AvsUVmzfRnplSLmfEO6kz2InCi95HB6P8Cv0RdW9BvOGxzZHbhGu5VVrInf3ZJXfSNayKu8k1MwwKlvmAuhFJ_FWkGGGfFBZwMmSwqWaH7ITk_SWQ=s0) ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2022, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7009 "2022-08-06T21:50:08Z")
_It’s time!_ [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZga1pIWAAAowWy?format=jpg&name=small) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZga1pIWAAAowWy?format=jpg&name=small) ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2022, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7010 "2022-08-06T22:11:35Z")
Illia Ponomarenko: > [Thread on Kherson](https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1555622809010946048) from a Professor of Strategic Studies: > [@](#): > > Well, for whatever reason the Ukrainians have been pushing the narrative of a counteroffensive in Kherson for weeks–and they are not stopping. > > … > > Been trying to think of the different reasons that the Ukrainians have been trying to persuade the Russians to send mass reinforcements to Kherson (because clearly they have). I think there are 3. > > 1. They actually plan an attack somewhere else (central area/even Donbas and this is a trick to make the Russians weaken the line where they really plan to move > > 2. They want lots of Russian troops in Kherson, particularly on the west bank of the Dnipro, because they can easily reduce the logistics flow to such troops by cutting the bridges across the river. And overall (both sides of river) its the easiest area to damage rail lines > > 3. The want lots of Russian troops in Kherson because its the safest place for the Ukrainians to attack, safest place to deploy Ukr ranged weapons, easiest for Ukr to supply. In other words, best place to attrit Russian forces while protecting Ukr. > > Personally 1 on its own strikes me as unlikely, not least because secret build ups for attack are not easy. Think a combination of 2 and 3 are far more likely. They want to fight in Kherson and want Russian troops there because they are very vulnerable. > > Ukr has had a pretty consistent strategy for months of trying to wear down Russian strength by constant attrition, so much so that the Russians wont be able to hold the large area that have to defend. Just a guess. The loss of the city of Kherson early in the war was a massive setback for the Ukrainians. It would have been relatively easy to prevent the city’s fall by blowing the bridges across the Dnipro River that lead to it. In such circumstances, I think that it can be good to try and focus on the opportunities that negative events can often generate. The opportunity here is to cut supply lines across the river and isolate, trap and capture/kill a lot of Russian invaders. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2022, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7011 "2022-08-07T10:18:33Z")
> **[Claims of new Russian atrocity after gruesome image appears to show the head...](https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-atrocity-claim-image-appears-to-show-head-of-ukrainian-pow-stuck-on-a-pole-2022-8?r=US&IR=T)** > > The disturbing image from the Russian-occupied Ukrainian town of Popasna follows an incident where a prison was bombed, killing 53 Ukrainian POWS. > [@](#): > > A new image posted by Ukrainian officials appear to show the skull of a Ukrainian soldier impaled on a stick. (It’s not a skull - it’s a head that’s been there for a while.) On the Olenivka POW massacre, from the same article: > [@](#): > > According to a prisoner recently released from the Olenivka detention center outside Donetsk, Ukrainian POWs are tortured and murdered. > > “We heard their cries,” Anna Vorosheva told The Guardian. “They played loud music to cover the screams. Torture happened all the time.” The Amnesty organisation has been receiving a lot of criticism recently: > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, The head of Amnesty International’s Ukraine arm has resigned after the human-rights organization blamed Kyiv for endangering civilians and violating international laws with its wartime tactics, according to reports. > > … > > Oksana Pokalchuk, head of Amnesty International Ukraine, said in a Facebook post late Friday that the report “became a tool of Russian propaganda,” per Politico. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2022, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7012 "2022-08-07T10:22:24Z")
> ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2022, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7013 "2022-08-07T10:32:05Z")
> The thread continues in the link. The “anal orgies” part is not just a crude offhand remark, but more about social hierarchy and prison culture that pervades Russian society. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2022, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7014 "2022-08-07T10:51:35Z")
What is the current prison culture? There is a long history there that dates back to possibly even before the Russian Revolution. The traditional “vory” had a pretty rigid code of conduct that prohibited any sort of collaboration or cooperation with prison authorities, law enforcement, or the government. (Military service is certainly right out; cf. the post-WW2 Bitch Wars). Have times changed that much? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7015 "2022-08-07T17:58:25Z")
The brutality of this war will rise to indescribable levels. It always happens regardless of the country. _Band of Brothers_ featured a character that hated Germans and killed some POW’s. It’s based on a true incident. The Germans executed POW’s during the Battle of the Bulge at Malmédy. It was investigated and prosecuted. The Russians will soon regret their brutality. The Ukrainians can and will reciprocate. Their sharpening their knives now. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2022, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7016 "2022-08-07T18:08:33Z")
I remember a scene in the 1979 edition of [_All Quiet on the Western Front_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Quiet_on_the_Western_Front_(1979_film)) with Richard Thomas and Ernest Borgnine, the latter, an experienced sergeant, catches a new recruit, maybe Thomas, filing serrations into the edge of his trench knife. “Throw that away! The French catch you with that they’ll use it to gouge out your eyes and fill the sockets with sawdust!” ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7017 "2022-08-08T16:14:30Z")
Rumors are that Ukraine has been using some American-provided AGM-88 HARMs to knock out Russian radars, perhaps with MiGs that were modified to carry Western missiles. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7018 "2022-08-08T16:24:34Z")
Probably ground launched. From The Drive - "Apparently, Ukraine’s defense minister Oleksiy Reznikov was [quoted by Ukrainian media](https://www.ukrinform.ua/rubric-ato/3536399-ukraina-otrimae-vid-partneriv-protiradarni-raketi-akih-ranise-ne-bulo-v-zsu-reznikov.html) as recently saying anti-radiation missiles would be sent to Ukraine during a national address (translated): “Based on this level of trust, we will continue to receive assistance. And you definitely saw the package announced, if I’m not mistaken, for $270 million with the signature of the President of the [United States](https://www.ukrinform.ua/tag-ssa) that we will get four more HIMARS, we will get **special anti-radar missiles that we had before.** This will allow you and I to effectively destroy their (the enemy’s - ed.) radar system, essentially blinding the enemy, which will give us the opportunity to gain an advantage for a counteroffensive.” It still isn’t clear if this is related to the HARM development, but it would seem very possible. The $270M aid package Reznikov is referring to [was announced in late July.](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jul/22/biden-administration-send-270-million-security-aid/) Also, it’s worth noting that the HIMARS launcher could potentially be adapted to fire a ground-launch AGM-88 and has the interface that could be adapted to control it. Similar studies, as well as tests, were done for [using HIMARS as an air defense platform](https://defense-update.com/20090325_himars_amraam.html) over a decade ago, [including launching the AIM-120 AMRAAM.](https://defense-update.com/20090325_himars_amraam.html) It’s also worth mentioning that no matter how a potential ground-launched AGM-88 is boosted (it at all), its range would be significantly decreased compared to air launch. We are talking a huge penalty here, especially without a booster. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7019 "2022-08-08T17:26:42Z")
Does Ukraine have paratroopers? Russia has fortified the Kherson line. No one wants to charge into it. Drop troops inside Kherson or come in from the flank like Schwarzkopf did in the Gulf War. It seems like Ukraine could use the 100 mile battle line to it’s advantage. Find the poorly defended areas. Otherwise this battle will be even worse than the ones six weeks ago in Donbas. Cite: [Battle for Kherson could exact deadly toll : NPR](https://www.npr.org/2022/08/06/1114420271/ukraine-kherson-counteroffensive-russia) > [@](#): > > Even Ukrainian soldiers who’ve been fighting here for months say the “gray zone” is a vast, confusing place. It stretches in a rough arc from war-torn villages on the outskirts of Kryvyi Rih, roughly 100 miles north of Kherson, to Mykolaiv, a city near the Black Sea. > > The line of active combat between Ukrainian and Russian units shifts daily, as troops move through old industrial sites, half-abandoned villages, farm fields, winding rivers and dense forests. > > ### Russian units are still punching back > > Our next stop was a heavily damaged bunker and observation post that had to be abandoned recently because of incoming Russian artillery and missile fire. > > “They started off by hitting us with BM-27 Uragan,” Maj. Oleksandr Lytvynov said, referring to a powerful Soviet-era rocket launcher known as a “Hurricane.” > > “Then a missile hit this wall from the other side. When they hit us the second time, we made the decision to relocate.” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7020 "2022-08-08T17:43:06Z")
The historic way to deal with an overly-well defended bit of land is to surround it and starve the soldiers out. You don’t have to try and pounce in. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7021 "2022-08-08T17:53:06Z")
Plus shelling. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7022 "2022-08-08T18:36:52Z")
I was looking today at yet another list of military items the west has sent Ukraine, and it struck me as notable that two things they aren’t sending in any appreciable quantities are tanks and modern armored personnel carriers. Seems like we’re being very careful in limiting Ukraine’s offensive capabilities. Almost like we’re trying to _promote_ a stalemate situation. If it was going to be a short conflict, not sending advanced equipment would make sense as Ukraine lacks the trained personnel to use it. But Putin has stated repeatedly they are in this war for the long haul. Why, therefore, shouldn’t we start sending M-1’s, BFVs, F-16s and other obvious weapons platforms that are necessary to conduct offensive operations? I question Ukraine’s ability to conduct any sort of serious counter-offensive around Kherson with their current forces and weapons available. The handful of HIMARS we’ve sent are nice for complicating Russian logistical efforts, but aren’t going to deliver any knock out blows. Ukraine needs a lot more heavy weapons if they’re going to dislodge Russians from their current positions, particularly once they’ve dug in. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7023 "2022-08-08T18:40:36Z")
Minimum confirmed losses of Russian officers: > [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZndV2KXwAEeWLb?format=png&name=large) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZndV2KXwAEeWLb?format=png&name=large) ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7024 "2022-08-08T18:46:15Z")
How difficult would those items be to transport? Easier or harder than the stuff we’re already sending? I really don’t know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=347) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=349)