# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/681 "2022-03-01T13:01:36Z")
NATO needs to send advisors to Ukraine. Special Ops willing to take the risks. The Ukrainians are willing to fight. They just need training and weapons. Russia may never leave. The Soviets dominated them after WWII. The occupying German forces left and Russians took their place. Somehow the Ukraine government and military needs to be supported. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/682 "2022-03-01T13:17:40Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > And one must not forget: [Putin’s honorary black belt in Taekwondo has been revoked](https://www.newsweek.com/vladimir-putins-black-belt-revoked-international-taekwondo-organization-1683304). Now we know he’s going to take a cyanide pill. What else is left to him? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/683 "2022-03-01T13:21:27Z")
Steven Seagal? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/684 "2022-03-01T13:24:37Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > And lots of Russian assets designed to turn those American assets into scrap metal. > > “ _How long can an A-10 survive over modern Russian formations with IADS, and how will the latter fare against American SEAD operations_ ” are questions I would rather not find out the answer to. I gotta be honest that I don’t want to find out either. But in this case it doesn’t appear as though equipment is the problem with the Russian army right now it’s the people using it. They’re not doing so hot against an army with old Soviet gear so I’m not sure how well they’d do against a more modern western army. I’d rather not find out though. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/685 "2022-03-01T13:46:48Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > How long would it take to paint a couple of B-52 bombers in Ukrainian colours? They could be loaded with a maximum capacity 70,000 pounds of bombs, and then donated to Ukraine to help welcome the Russian convoy. Probably not very long. The question is whether or not they could make it from the Polish border to the convoy without being shot down. I’m guessing that they probably wouldn’t make it. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/686 "2022-03-01T13:47:30Z")
Dude, they are after 4 days knocking on the door of Kyiv and about to trap most of the Ukrainian armed forces in a pocket in the south. > They have had logistical problems. The US had big ones during the 2003 invasion. > **[Analysis | The Russian invasion has some logistical problems. That doesn’t...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/28/russia-ukraine-logistics-invasion/)** > > Supply problems are the norm, not the exception. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/687 "2022-03-01T13:50:42Z")
The ‘52 had an unsustainable loss rate against SA2 in Linebacker II. In 1972. Wonder what it’s survival time will be here. It’s not been a bomb truck in any but the most permissive environment for half a century. It’s a missile carrier. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/688 "2022-03-01T14:00:48Z")
Yeah, anyone who thinks the Russians have failed and Ukraine is heading toward liberation is deluded. That said, it’s _also_ true that the Russian plan has not gone as well as expected. Many hard days ahead and lots of ways Russia can escalate. It’s going to get ugly. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/689 "2022-03-01T14:15:18Z")
I still hold out hope for Ukrainian resistance. The difference to Iraq is that Ukraine are more united, they enjoy a more unified global support, and they face an enemy that’s less organized, professional, and well-equipped. And of course Russia isn’t as wealthy or stable as the US. Lots of wildcards on the table. But If I’m a terrible, petty person like Putin, I’m thinking “US invaded and occupied Iraq for 10 years without us interfering, so we should be allowed to do the same in Ukraine.” There seem to be a lot of parallels to Iraq… leadership hoped for a quick government-toppling PR gain, but is willing to pour bodies into the grinder if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/690 "2022-03-01T14:19:33Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Whose C17s? What base? Where? Looked like the USAF C-17 staged from Germany and the RAF from England. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/691 "2022-03-01T14:30:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > IIRC, Ukraine has made the argument that the General Assembly could vote that the Soviet Union’s seat on the Security Council is vacant and that Russia is not entitled to fill it, along the lines of when China’s seat was taken from the ROC amd given to the PRC. I like this idea. Why not go all the way and reassign the seat to Ukraine? > [@Smapti](#): > > Best endgame they get is declaring victory, keeping the two eastern territories, and withdrawing. That would have been nice, had Putin realized that. The problem is he’s backed himself into a corner, and even that scenario would now be considered a major defeat for him, which he probably wouldn’t survive. > [@velomont](#): > > And the west, IMO, is in a real bind here. At my gut, I truly believe that NATO should be on Ukrainian soil and in their airspace ASAP. But then there are Putin’s threats. But if we do nothing he could possibly just move on to the next ex-Soviet country, and on and on until he’s happy. Only if the next ex-Soviet country is one of the Stans in Central Asia. Given how it seems the sanctions are actually hurting Russia, I’ve started to think that there’s only two likely outcomes out of the following scenarios. 1. Putin is overthrown in a coup. 2. We end up in a nuclear war. 3. A long term occupation of Ukraine, which I see as being extremely unlikely the way Russia is doing now economically. 4. Ukraine wins, in which case we’re back to one of the first two scenarios. 5. Putin comes to his senses and decides to retreat back to Russia. Sadly I see this as the least likely outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/692 "2022-03-01T14:30:32Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > There seem to be a lot of parallels to Iraq… I see the main parallel is deluded thinking at the top. There is no dictatorship to topple, Ukraine is not a mono-resource desert, and the Iraq war did not threaten to open Europe to attack by one of the largest military forces in the world. It was Bush’s imbecile vanity war. This may turn out to be Putin’s stupid vanity war but if so, it will be for very different reasons. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/693 "2022-03-01T14:38:11Z")
The biggest one being that Russia doesn’t have the economy to support a multi year, let alone a decades long, occupation, especially when the west will be providing supplies to the insurgents, along with likely having an official Ukrainian government in exile, which the Iraqis never had. I’m not seeing a long term occupation as being a stable situation, which is a big problem for all involved because the alternatives aren’t pretty. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/694 "2022-03-01T14:52:57Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > have not seen that in the news. Interesting. I didn’t think they could do that, especially to a permanent member of the Security Council. I was getting ahead of myself… This is a very remote possibility in future, but highly unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/695 "2022-03-01T14:54:54Z")
Very powerful speech by Ursula von der Leyen: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/VImDd1ypZCY/maxresdefault.jpg "Von der Leyen pledges €1bn to Ukraine in passionate address: 'We are united'") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VImDd1ypZCY) ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/696 "2022-03-01T15:10:17Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > My wife and I were talking about this. How the hell can just one wack-job do so much damage and violence and, if the west becomes too meddlesome, essentially threaten the planet with nuclear war? > > And the west, IMO, is in a real bind here. At my gut, I truly believe that NATO should be on Ukrainian soil and in their airspace ASAP. Yet more evidence that we really buggered up the 1990s, and the end of the cold war. We really should have put a lot more effort into rebuilding the former USSR, and not just watched while it fell apart and fell into the hands of kleptocrats. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/697 "2022-03-01T15:16:31Z")
on a similar note … google also knew before anyone else that the invasion was starting … when the google-traffic-layer on google maps reported traffic jams at 3a.m. in small russian border villages ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/698 "2022-03-01T15:17:23Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > We really should have put a lot more effort into rebuilding the former USSR, and not just watched while it fell apart and fell into the hands of kleptocrats. We put a significant amount in. Whether it was the right help, that’s harder to say. Yeltsin wasn’t the right pick, for sure. But we did give them billions of dollars to rebuild, brought them in to work with NATO, brought them in to G8. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/699 "2022-03-01T15:18:35Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Many hard days ahead and lots of ways Russia can escalate. It’s going to get ugly. Preach it. We’re six minutes into the first quarter and the score’s 3 - 0 ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/700 "2022-03-01T15:19:38Z")
that is probably the key issue here … and at the same time also the solution to the problem ;o) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=36)