# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 356
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7165 "2022-08-17T19:10:42Z")
Depends on the explosive and what’s blown up next to it – some is touchier than others. On ships they kept the propellant for bag guns separate from the shells, and back before they started incorporating it into patches on the ends of the bags, the black powder used to detonate the main propellant charge was stored in yet another magazine. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2022, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7166 "2022-08-17T22:16:14Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Physics question: Do explosives always detonate when in the presence of an explosion? Questions specific to Russian ammo dumps getting blown up by Ukrainian HIMARS. To piggyback on what others have said … some of the videos of Russian ammo dumps / storage areas being destroyed by Ukrainian efforts show ongoing, rolling explosions, with some projectiles shooting out of the main conflagration. This is an indication of the initial strike causing secondary explosions among the ammo. Doesn’t always happen, but when it does, it’s amazingly gratifying. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2022, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7167 "2022-08-17T23:29:59Z")
This particular discussion reminds me of the sorry Marine on Saipan during WW2 who chucked a satchel charge through a firing slit in a pill box, not knowing that it was the main Japanese ammo dump left on the island. I’ve seen stills, and I think I’ve seen film footage, but the explosion could be seen on Mars. Enclosed space, so _virtually_ all at once. ---
**Author:** ![Ssounder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@Ssounder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ssounder)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2022, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7168 "2022-08-17T23:48:18Z")
Brave Marine in my book. I’m not familiar with the story. Did you say “sorry Marine” because he didn’t survive? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7169 "2022-08-17T23:50:53Z")
As in “He’s sorry he did that.” ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2022, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7170 "2022-08-17T23:52:30Z")
> [@Sauron](#): > > Doesn’t always happen, but when it does, it’s amazingly gratifying. For one side, anyway. For the other it’s pretty vexing. ---
**Author:** ![Ssounder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@Ssounder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ssounder)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2022, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7171 "2022-08-17T23:53:22Z")
Who’s side was he on? Did he survive? Maybe I’m slow, but I gotta know. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2022, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7172 "2022-08-17T23:57:51Z")
US Marine with a satchel charge. Ran on top of a big-ass “pill box” and lobbed it in. Made a crater you could drop Little Rock in. The Marine did not survive. Zero remains. ---
**Author:** ![Ssounder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@Ssounder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ssounder)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7173 "2022-08-18T00:00:17Z")
Brave indeed. Probably saved a lot of allied lives on that island. Thanks for the story. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7174 "2022-08-18T00:49:53Z")
For more reading, use the terms sympathetic detonation and simultaneous detonation. The basic way to reduce these happenings uses explosive quantity distance calculations. You seperate stacks of ammo of certain types from other stacks by a minimum distance. If you have the time/equipment in a field situation, you’d construct barriers between the stacks to reduce explosive spread by [my favorite q-d term] high speed low angle fragments. The Russians aren’t very observant of these distances. This is related to their lack of material handling equipment - they load/off load everything by hand labor. Having to drag a hundred pound projectile a 1/4 mile down the railroad siding to a new stack and then repeating that a few hundred more times is exhausting. And they have huge quantities of ammo and few trucks. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7175 "2022-08-18T01:34:27Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Russia never fully mobilized for their wars in the 90’s and 00’s. I would only hope they won’t in Ukraine. But they do see the Ukrainian war as a proxy to fighting NATO. If Russia has to mobilize in ANY numbers beyond what they have now to defeat (relatively) tiny little Ukraine, then they have absolutely zero hope of defeating NATO on a conventional battlefield. At this point, I’m not even sure they could seriously inconvenience NATO if the conflict stays conventional. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7176 "2022-08-18T01:36:52Z")
NATO could use Russia for practice I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7177 "2022-08-18T02:37:10Z")
Aren’t they, though? Every military on earth is going to school on this conflict and taking copious notes… ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7178 "2022-08-18T03:13:42Z")
And more than notes. NATO is analyzing captured Russian equipment and I’m sure Russia is doing the same and/or sharing with Iran/China/DPRK. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7179 "2022-08-18T04:59:49Z")
I think a similar letter was reported a few months ago. I think the knowledgeable people tbat signed it is important. Three former ambassadors to Ukraine worked there and understand the conflict between Ukraine and Russia. It’s alarming that once again the White House may block the transfer of MiGs. Slovakia was reported to be prepared to send its MiG-29s to Ukraine. It may not happen. I can’t imagine a stronger ally to support. Russia is vulnerable right now. Important bridges are knocked out and a lot of Russia’s munitions destroyed. A couple dozen Migs could make the difference in retaking Kherson. I hope the strategic opportunity isn’t wasted. Cite [19 retired generals and ex-officials urge US to increase arms supplies to Ukraine | US foreign policy | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/17/us-ukraine-arms-supply-retired-generals-officials) > [@](#): > > They said that the US was providing enough weaponry to ensure a stalemate but not sufficient to help [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) recapture territory seized by Russia. The former officers, diplomats and other officials argue the administration is inhibited by fear of triggering a Russian escalation, possibly involving nuclear weapons – but they argue that failure to defeat Vladimir Putin in Ukraine increases the danger of a confrontation with Moscow later “on less favourable grounds”. > > The pace of arms deliveries to Ukraine has been a repeated source of friction between Washington and Kyiv, as well as some eastern European allies. So far, the US has given Ukraine nearly $10bn in military aid under the Biden administration, including rocket launchers, but has stopped short of providing longer-range missiles, fixed-wing aircraft and certain armed drones. > > “By providing aid sufficient to produce a stalemate, but not enough to roll back Russian territorial gains, the Biden administration may be unintentionally seizing defeat from the jaws of victory,” a commentary published in [the Hill](https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/3605064-us-must-arm-ukraine-now-before-its-too-late/) said, signed by ​​Gen Philip Breedlove, former supreme commander of Nato forces in Europe, and three former ambassadors to Ukraine, [Marie Yovanovitch](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/11/who-is-marie-yovanovitch-diplomat-slated-to-testify-on-ukraine-and-trump), John Herbst and William Taylor, among others. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7180 "2022-08-18T05:43:47Z")
Ukraine preparations for a counter offensive in Kherson are very impressive. Russia will have problems resupplying its forces in Kherson. Cite [Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, August 16 | Institute for the Study of War](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-august-16) > [@](#): > > **Attacks on Russian positions in and around Crimea are likely part of a coherent Ukrainian counter-offensive to regain control of the west bank of the Dnipro River.** Russian supply lines from Crimea directly support Russian forces in mainland Ukraine including those in western Kherson Oblast. Ukraine’s targeting of Russian ground lines of communication and logistic and support assets in Crimea is consistent with the Ukrainian counteroffensive effort that has also targeted bridges over the Dnipro River and Russian logistical support elements in occupied Kherson Oblast.[7] The net effects of this campaign will likely be to disrupt the ability of Russian forces to sustain mechanized forces on the west bank of the Dnipro River and to defend them with air and artillery assets on the east bank from Ukrainian counterattacks. > > **The Kremlin continues efforts to misrepresent its likely maximalist goals in Ukraine.** ISW assesses that Russian strategic objectives remain unchanged: changing the regime change in Kyiv and securing territorial control over most of Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7181 "2022-08-18T06:13:40Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > (relatively) tiny little Ukraine I mean, it IS the second largest country in Europe after Russia by square miles (roughly the states of California + Washington) and 7th in population. At the start of the war, questions of effectiveness (and budget) aside, they had the third largest standing military in Europe after Russia and Turkey. Let’s not undersell them TOO heavily - they weren’t Estonia. That Russia apparently considered them pushovers proved to be a risky and grave mistake. However I think the assorted debates we have had in the past on this board about how NATO would fare against a Russian attack have probably been answered. Russia in it’s pre-war state would likely have gotten broken pretty quickly. Their offensive capacity wasn’t nothing, but it was a lot less potent than many feared. And after this dustup, it is definitely crippled in the short run. Defensively I think a fully mobilized Russia would be a lot more dangerous of a quagmire. But, yeah - NATO as a whole has little to be scared of in terms of a massive invasion. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7182 "2022-08-18T07:38:22Z")
Russia continues to shoot itself in the foot. There’s several more tweets. This problem dates back to 1990’s. > > ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7183 "2022-08-18T07:39:44Z")
They should aim higher. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7184 "2022-08-18T11:38:41Z")
I understood that reference - Cpt. America [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=355) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=357)