# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 361
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7265 "2022-08-21T04:20:57Z")
Do Putin’s advisors really count as civilians? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7266 "2022-08-21T04:24:40Z")
Yes? Henry Kissinger was a civilian too. How is this even a question? You may argue that assassinations of politicians of combatant nations are legitimate strategies if you like. There’s a case to be made there, though I’d not be inclined to concede the argument, but that politicians that hold no military position beyond cheerleader are civilians? How is this a debate? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7267 "2022-08-21T04:31:09Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > How is this a debate? It’s not a debate, you’re just being literal. Let me translate. “He’s a civilian? Who cares? Fuck him.” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7268 "2022-08-21T04:36:19Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I read that her dad was the thought to be the target and was expected to be in the car. Yes it’s right in the Daily Beast article: > [@](#): > > Alexander Dugin was meant to be in the vehicle his daughter was driving but had gotten in a different one at the last second, according to Pyotr Lundstrem, a Russian violinist quoted by the outlet. > > Dugin had reportedly been following right behind his daughter and had watched as her car exploded. Photos shared by Baza appeared to show Dugin distraught at the scene, holding his head in both hands as he stood in front of the fiery wreckage. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7269 "2022-08-21T04:39:19Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > However odious he may be, he’s a civilian. Totally. Just like Joseph Goebbels. By all means let the man live and just speak his mind. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7270 "2022-08-21T04:41:00Z")
> [@Seanette](#): > > Do Putin’s advisors really count as civilians? He holds no official government position at all. Alexander Dugin is an odious “philosopher” of hyper-nationalist and fascist rhetoric but any political influence he holds, however broad OR deep, is purely off the books. It would be just a bit like planting a car bomb to take out Alex Jones or Dinesh D’Souza. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7271 "2022-08-21T04:41:31Z")
I actually considered using Goebbels in place of Kissinger in my previous post. Kissinger was more responsible for the war in question than Goebbels, though. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7272 "2022-08-21T04:42:58Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > How is this a debate? Unfortunately, when bodies of civilians are found shot dead with their hands tied behind them, and maternity hospitals are destroyed in indiscriminate shelling, and captured soldiers are castrated before being summarily executed, partisan warfare is more likely to erupt, regardless of the laws of war. That is why good soldiers know that respecting the laws of war are for their own protection. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7273 "2022-08-21T04:59:10Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Kissinger was more responsible for the war in question than Goebbels, though. And yet Kissinger didn’t poison his children and then commit suicide. there’s context in the comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7274 "2022-08-21T05:00:42Z")
It’s not a question of who was a worse person, but who was a more legitimate military target. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7275 "2022-08-21T05:50:20Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > It would be just a bit like planting a car bomb to take out Alex Jones or Dinesh D’Souza. I mean, if Alex Jones convinced Trump to invade Mexico, rape, murder, depopulate, and steal their children… well, I wouldn’t shed tears. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7276 "2022-08-21T11:33:37Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > The new assistance package will include: > … > Demolition equipment i.e. C4 explosives 👀 ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7277 "2022-08-21T11:56:10Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > i.e. C4 explosives 👀 and, Blasting caps both electric and non-electric [time fuse or shock tube initiated]. Miles of detonating cord. Military dynamite [it’s not Nitroglycerin based, it’s TNT]. Various electric, non-electric initiators to include wireless. Various shape charges either pre-formed or add the C-4 yourself. Lots of stuff - Trippler who is EOD could add much more but above is the basics to clear mines, UXO, booby traps, knock down obstacles, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7278 "2022-08-21T13:27:38Z")
Ukrainian government issues denial of any involvement: > [@](#): > > Kyiv strongly denied the allegations. “Ukraine has absolutely nothing to do with this, because we are not a criminal state like Russia, or a terrorist one at that,” Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to the president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, said in remarks broadcast on television. > **[Daughter of Putin ally Alexander Dugin killed by car bomb in Moscow](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/21/daughter-of-putin-ally-alexander-dugin-killed-in-car-bomb-in-moscow-reports)** > > Russian hawks without evidence blame Kyiv for death of Darya Dugina and demand Kremlin response ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7279 "2022-08-21T14:06:13Z")
Russian Foreign Ministry reserves judgment, for now: > The Russian Foreign Ministry’s spokeswoman, Maria V. Zakharova, stopped short of accusing Ukraine. But she wrote on Telegram that if Ukraine was indeed responsible, “then we have to be talking about a policy of state terrorism being realized by the Kyiv regime.” > **[Russia-Ukraine War: Russia Opens Murder Investigation After Blast Kills...](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/08/21/world/ukraine-russia-news-war)** > > Daria Dugina was the daughter of an ultranationalist who has urged the Kremlin to escalate its assault on Ukraine. The rare attack on a member of the pro-Kremlin elite could upend President Putin’s efforts to maintain a sense of normalcy. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7280 "2022-08-21T14:19:26Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Ukrainian government issues denial of any involvement: I can’t see Ukraine assassinating prominent Russians. Zelensky and his family already have prices on their heads. I doubt other Ukrainian officials want their names more prominent on the kill list. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7281 "2022-08-21T15:13:55Z")
A thought. Should Ukraine should have decommissioned all their nuclear power plants when they had the chance. If yes, then any that are currently not occupied should be shut down. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7282 "2022-08-21T15:53:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Should Ukraine should have decommissioned all their nuclear power plants when they had the chance. If yes Nuclear power makes up about half of their capacity, and the next biggest source, coal power, is apparently having trouble, since they used to buy coal from Russia. So I’m going to say, no, this would have been a terrible idea, no matter the risks. If Russia just wanted to deny Ukraine the power from this plant, they could just blow up the power lines. Rebuilding that in the middle of a war would have been difficult and consume much effort and many resources. > **[Nuclear power in Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Ukraine#/media/File:Electricity-prod-source-stacked.svg)** > > Ukraine operates four nuclear power plants with 15 reactors located in Volhynia and South Ukraine. > The total installed nuclear power capacity is over 13 GWe, ranking 7th in the world in 2020. Energoatom, a Ukrainian state enterprise, operates all four active nuclear power stations in Ukraine. > In 2019, nuclear power supplied over 20% of Ukraine's energy. > In 2021, Ukraine's nuclear reactors produced 81 TWh — over 55% of its total electricity generation, and the second-highest share in the world... ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7283 "2022-08-21T15:55:02Z")
Also, what’s the cost/benefit? Do they have people and material that could be used better elsewhere than assassinating him? Surprised Russia didn’t immediately accuse Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7284 "2022-08-21T16:43:40Z")
If they blame Ukraine, that will make Russia look weak and vulnerable. If they blame the west, that will undermine their intelligence agencies. If they blame Russian saboteurs, that will acknowledge that the war is going badly and the fabric of the Russian society is starting to crack. This is why the Russians aren’t admitting the explosions in Crimea were of Ukrainian nature. The public opinion will see it as a major weakness. The Russian people were told that Ukrainians would welcome them as liberators and that Russia would be more secure because of the military operation. Expect to see the investigation either quietly shelved or for it to point to a jealous boyfriend or something. Or maybe Putin will want an excuse to attack another country. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=360) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=362)