# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 369
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7425 "2022-08-30T08:18:09Z")
Why the pretense? Just paint the Reapers Ukrainian colors and have their regular U.S. crews fly them. The Russians will claim whatever they want to claim either way. There’s nothing new about this. Their were plenty of Soviet pilots flying MIGs in Vietnam, too. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7426 "2022-08-30T08:38:29Z")
Ukraine has consistently taken a cautious approach to this war. Saving their men and resources wherever possible. The current counter offensive appears well planned. It’s smart to take it slow and keep their casualties low. Cite [Ukraine claims counteroffensive in the south – explained | Ukraine | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/30/ukraine-claims-counteroffensive-south-russia-explained) > [@](#): > > ## What are the prospects of success? > > Humenyuk told reporters that Russian forces were strong in the region – and that even though morale was low among their ranks, “it was too early to relax”. In comments on his Telegram account reported by the Guardian’s Samantha Lock [on the live blog](https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/aug/30/russia-ukraine-war-ukraines-forces-launch-attacks-in-occupied-kherson-un-nuclear-team-arrives-in-kyiv-live-live?page=with:block-630da74d8f080ba02dce9b90#block-630da74d8f080ba02dce9b90), Arestovych characterised the action as “a planned slow operation to grind the enemy” and said: “This process will not be very fast, but will end with the installation of the Ukrainian flag over all the settlements of Ukraine.” > > Ukraine’s ability to conduct its claimed counteroffensive has been greatly enhanced by the provision of weapons by the west, and Russian positions in the region have been under artillery barrage for weeks and cut off from their supply lines. > > But it is too early to say whether those successes will translate to victory on the ground. A US official [quoted by the New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/29/world/europe/ukraine-russia-counteroffensive.html) said the Pentagon “remained cautious about whether Ukraine’s current military capabilities were sufficient to make significant gains”. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7427 "2022-08-30T10:36:36Z")
Britain has been training Ukrainian troops. First on British weapons sent to Ukraine. They also are giving general training to fresh recruits. That was in the news a few months ago. The wording here seems odd? training mission? Would that be inside Ukraine? Guardian blog > [@](#): > > - **European Union defence ministers are set to pave the way for the establishment of an EU training mission for Ukrainian forces, the bloc’s top diplomat Josep Borrell said.** Reuters reports that Borrell said: “The situation on the ground continues to be very bad. Ukraine needs our support, and we will continue providing support. A general, overall political agreement (on the training mission) is what I think we have to get today … I hope we will have a political green light for this mission.” ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7428 "2022-08-30T14:58:22Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Because the US military pays people to think about unlikely scenarios I suspect there are some… but they have never been tested. No real-world data to work from. And then there’s the question of whether or not anything from elsewhere could be used to help the Ukrainians, who are the folks who currently are dealing with this up front. Beyond that, it wouldn’t be a military problem in the first place, unless it was the US military having to deal with the capture or loss of a nuclear plant. If it’s something like that in a conflict between two third-parties, it’s absolutely a _political_ problem- NATO countries’ leadership problem in fact. It’s only a military problem when they get orders to do something violent about it. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7429 "2022-08-30T23:09:44Z")
The Ukrainians are finding ways to make the Russians waste their armaments. [Ukraine Using Fake Rocket Launchers so Russia Wastes Missiles: Report (businessinsider.com)](https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-using-fake-wooden-rocket-launchers-russia-waste-missiles-report-2022-8) ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7430 "2022-08-31T02:04:10Z")
Except for the very real horrors being inflicted on the Ukrainian people, this is like watching the Ewoks kick the crap out of the Imperials. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7431 "2022-08-31T03:52:07Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Wonder if America could just let Ukrainian personnel fly Reapers (in Ukrainian airspace) from the usual drone-control stations in Nevada, so that technically it’s Ukraine doing the flying, but the U.S. techs are right there to guide and troubleshoot as need be. I think it should be the other way. US personnel pilot the drones and the Ukraine personnel engage the enemy. When I say “атака” push this button. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7432 "2022-08-31T03:58:18Z")
At this point I’m wondering if the overseas training should focus on how to deal with captured soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7433 "2022-08-31T06:15:39Z")
It may be awhile before anyone knows if the Russians are fighting or surrendering in large numbers. #kherson on twitter has reports of fighting inside the city. Could be partisans or maybe Ukraine special forces. ISW warns Russia will claim success and exploit Ukraine staying silent for mission security. ISW also says photos show convoys of Russian vehicles from Crimea and Melitopol reenforcing Kherson. It does not sound like a quick withdrawal. Cite [Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, August 30 | Institute for the Study of War](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-august-30) > [@](#): > > **Ukrainian forces have long undertaken efforts to destroy Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) prior to the announcement of the counteroffensive operation, which likely indicates that Ukrainian forces are committed to a long-term effort - composed of both strikes and ground assaults.** Ukrainian strikes on Russian GLOCs disrupt the Russians’ ability to supply and reinforce their positions with manpower and equipment, which will assist Ukrainian ground counteroffensives. Satellite imagery shows that Russian forces are continuing to use ferries to transfer a limited amount of military equipment daily via the Dnipro River.[3] > > **The Ukrainian counteroffensive is thus a cohesive process that will require some time to correctly execute**. The Kremlin will likely exploit the lack of immediate victory over Kherson City or Ukrainian operational silence on the progress of the Ukrainian counteroffensive to misrepresent Ukrainian efforts as failing and to undermine public confidence in its prospects. ---
**Author:** ![HorribleMutantBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/258eb7/32.png) [@HorribleMutantBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorribleMutantBoy)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7434 "2022-08-31T12:08:30Z")
I wonder how Russia will attempt to save face if the Ukrainians manage to retake the city. ---
**Author:** ![EnglishGrey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/englishgrey/32/14111_2.png) [@EnglishGrey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EnglishGrey)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7435 "2022-08-31T12:15:48Z")
I think it is a slightly different use of the word ‘mission’ : > **[Missions and Operations | EEAS Website](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/missions-and-operations_en)** > > Working for a stable world and a safer Europe ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7436 "2022-08-31T14:06:52Z")
If they have the capability, possibly by bombing and shelling it into rubble and declaring victory. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7437 "2022-08-31T14:16:31Z")
> [@HorribleMutantBoy](#): > > I wonder how Russia will attempt to save face if the Ukrainians manage to retake the city. By smoking lots of copium. “We still conquered a lot of the Donbas, and we also bled Ukraine a lot during their counteroffensive, so we still win and it’s still Ukraine’s pyrrhic victory!” ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7438 "2022-08-31T14:30:26Z")
The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense has a good Twitter game. > ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7439 "2022-08-31T15:36:22Z")
Ha! I keep looking for that scene from _Airplane!_ where he blows up a fuel dump by spitting at it but it doesn’t seem to have made it to GIF status yet. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7440 "2022-08-31T17:48:25Z")
A Russian soldier flips off/performs the bras d’honneur at a Ukrainian drone. The soldier is on an APC speeding away carrying soldiers wounded by munitions dropped by the drone. > From a longer video (spoilered for scenes of war): [https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1564504149919768577](https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1564504149919768577) ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7441 "2022-08-31T20:35:17Z")
Okay, I’m getting frustrated by the watercooler discussions at work where everyone is all fired up about the Ukrainian counter-offensive near Kherson. Seems like a lot of folks are expecting some sort of campaign where Patton’s 3rd Army breaks out of Normandy and tanks race to surround the objective. There are no map updates due to Ukraine news block out policy, but I don’t think we’d see big movement on the map if they did show up. We’re probably going to see a similar sort of grinding campaign that we saw the Russians use in the east where there’s artillery prep fire and incremental gains made with a combination of armor and infantry support. This is going to take some weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7442 "2022-08-31T23:25:38Z")
Military summary channel is showing Russian map updates that are actually very favorable to the Ukrainian forces. More than the pro Ukraine one. A few towns retaken. A Russian forward group almost encircled. Major road of supply to another Russian group under fire control. Doing pretty good. But are taking some heavy losses. Hopefully they can keep supply up. Russians have air superiority, so supply lines are at risk. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7443 "2022-08-31T23:29:05Z")
Also reports of very large numbers of Ukrainian military armored vehicles going into Kharkiv. Russians say they are hard to take out, due to extensive underground facilities to store them. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2022, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/7444 "2022-09-01T02:49:20Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Okay, I’m getting frustrated by the watercooler discussions at work where everyone is all fired up about the Ukrainian counter-offensive near Kherson. Seems like a lot of folks are expecting some sort of campaign where Patton’s 3rd Army breaks out of Normandy and tanks race to surround the objective. There are no map updates due to Ukraine news block out policy, but I don’t think we’d see big movement on the map if they did show up. We’re probably going to see a similar sort of grinding campaign that we saw the Russians use in the east where there’s artillery prep fire and incremental gains made with a combination of armor and infantry support. This is going to take some weeks. I think the Ukrainians will keep focusing on targeting logistics and cutting supply lines to Kherson. As the noose tightens on the defending Russian invaders, their military capability and resolve will weaken. This would be similar strategy to what worked in northern Ukraine, but using HIMARS strikes, rather than light infantry ambushes, to cut off supplies. So this will probably take weeks or months. > [@Kedikat](#): > > Also reports of very large numbers of Ukrainian military armored vehicles going into Kharkiv. Russians say they are hard to take out, due to extensive underground facilities to store them. The initiative seems to have shifted away from the Russians. They know not where the Ukrainians might counterattack. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=368) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=370)