# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 405
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8145 "2022-09-18T02:13:49Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > how the hell do you float rail cars out there and sink them? We would probably accomplish something like that with Ospreys and/or Chinooks. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8146 "2022-09-18T02:21:32Z")
Yes. I guess if you have tank lift capability, you can do rail car. 30 tons roughly? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8147 "2022-09-18T03:18:56Z")
I think the local Russian command is _following their last orders_ and hoping that’s enough to avoid Moscow’s anger. I’ve done that myself when things went wrong at my job. I kept my head down and stayed _very busy_ on my assigned project. The failure to reinforce makes me suspicious. _Come on in, the door is open_. Ukraine needs to study their intel closely and confirm Russia isn’t making a long term a strategic move. It would be very easy for Ukrainian forces to over extend and try to hold too much territory. ISW Sept 17 > [@](#): > > **Russian forces continue to conduct meaningless offensive operations around Donetsk City and Bakhmut instead of focusing on defending against Ukrainian counteroffensives that continue to advance.** Russian troops continue to attack Bakhmut and various villages near Donetsk City of emotional significance to pro-war residents of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) but little other importance. The Russians are apparently directing some of the very limited reserves available in Ukraine to these efforts rather than to the vulnerable Russian defensive lines hastily thrown up along the Oskil River in eastern Kharkiv Oblast. The Russians cannot hope to make gains around Bakhmut or Donetsk City on a large enough scale to derail Ukrainian counteroffensives and appear to be continuing an almost robotic effort to gain ground in Donetsk Oblast that seems increasingly divorced from the overall realities of the theater. > > **Russian failures to rush large-scale reinforcements to eastern Kharkiv and to Luhansk Oblasts leave most of Russian-occupied northeastern Ukraine highly vulnerable to continuing Ukrainian counter-offensives.** The Russians may have decided not to defend this area, despite Russian President Vladimir Putin’s repeated declarations that the purpose of the “special military operation” is to “liberate” Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts. Prioritizing the defense of Russian gains in southern Ukraine over holding northeastern Ukraine makes strategic sense since Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts are critical terrain for both Russia and Ukraine ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8148 "2022-09-18T03:23:36Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I think the local Russian command is _following their last orders_ and hoping that’s enough to avoid Moscow’s anger. So the Russian military is communicating via postal letters? A few days or a week between updates? Carrier pigeons? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8149 "2022-09-18T03:29:43Z")
The top level command structure may be broken. Officers killed or captured. Russian command is strict and subordinates don’t act independently. I think the local command would continue with their known assignments. They’re already in positions to attack Bakhmut. The artillery is zeroed in. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8150 "2022-09-18T03:31:54Z")
A possibility. But I think not all operational commands would be frozen. Not everything comes from the top levels down to the very bottom levels and all in between… ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8151 "2022-09-18T03:35:11Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > Not everything comes from the top levels down to the very bottom levels and all in between… Actually, based on the numerous articles I’ve read, that’s exactly how the ~~Soviet~~ Russian Army works - as for most dictatorships. Independent thinking in the military can be…problematic…for the dictator. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8152 "2022-09-18T03:47:27Z")
Never mind. Detracted. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8153 "2022-09-18T11:36:04Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It would be very easy for Ukrainian forces to over extend and try to hold too much territory. See, the PRO in this war for Ukr. is that they do not need to hold territory … the territory holds itself … IOW there are roughly 40.000.000 people helping to hold it. (does not _hold true_ for russians ;o) ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8154 "2022-09-18T12:02:30Z")
> **[Ukraine says Mexico's peace plan is meant to help Russia regroup for a new...](https://www.vallartadaily.com/ukraine-says-mexicos-peace-plan-is-meant-to-help-russia-regroup-for-a-new-offensive/)** > > Next Tuesday, the general debate of the 77th UN General Assembly will begin in New York, where leaders and heads of state from 170 countries will discuss Mexico has a peace plan which Ukraine says is designed to help Russia regroup. I didn’t realise before that the Mexican government looks like its been taken over by a demagogue who is pro-Russian. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8155 "2022-09-18T12:15:36Z")
Confirmation that Ukraine has restored its border in this area. It’s a sad reminder that these people lived peacefully for a long time. Travel between Ukraine and Russia was common. I doubt there’s any chance Ukraine would send troops across the border. I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia stages a false flag attack in Belgorod. I wonder if the border is still open? Local businessman, farmers, and journalists may need to travel. > **[‘They won’t invade, will they?’ Fears rise in Russian city that Ukraine war...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/18/ukraine-war-cross-border-russia-putin-belgorod)** > > As Putin’s forces are pushed back to where they came from, there is growing unease in the city of Belgorod > [@](#): > > The following day, some 400 National Guard troops are reinforcing positions held by the Russian border guards. Even there, an activist who was present said, soldiers were soul-searching among themselves. Within eyeshot are Ukrainian troops on the other side in a tense standoff. > > “How the fuck did this happen?” one border guard said to another, two people who were there recall. > > In Belgorod, [the signals of war and tension are on display](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/19/belgorod-the-russian-city-on-the-ukraine-frontline), even if most people believe the conflict is unlikely to spill over. Oleg, a restaurateur originally from Ukraine wears a shirt emblazoned with the phrase “Born in Kharkiv”, and has bought plywood boards in case he needs to cover his restaurant’s windows ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8156 "2022-09-18T13:47:51Z")
> ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8157 "2022-09-18T14:02:01Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > In Belgorod, [the signals of war and tension are on display](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/19/belgorod-the-russian-city-on-the-ukraine-frontline), even if most people believe the conflict is unlikely to spill over. Oleg, a restaurateur originally from Ukraine wears a shirt emblazoned with the phrase “Born in Kharkiv”, and has bought plywood boards in case he needs to cover his restaurant’s windows Yah, plywood should do the trick. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8158 "2022-09-18T15:03:04Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > See, the PRO in this war for Ukr. is that they do not need to hold territory … the territory holds itself … IOW there are roughly 40.000.000 people helping to hold it. > > (does not _hold true_ for russians ;o) It’s still possible for Ukraine to overextend lines at this point, as they really haven’t had time to set up all their forward logistics depots yet. Holding territory for Ukrainians means having adequate forces available near the front areas to stave off potential Russian counterattacks. But yes, one clear advantage the Ukrainians have is they don’t need to allocate security forces to protect themselves from partisans or civilian populations like the Russians must do. This frees up more resources for Ukr. to fight with. ---
**Author:** ![Bonum\_Legatum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bonum_legatum/32/6183_2.png) [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8159 "2022-09-18T15:15:50Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > “C’mon you apes! Wanta live forever?” - unknown US platoon sergeant, 1917 (quoted by RAH). Which, as I recall, received the perfect response: “Is asking for 19 being greedy?”- Unknown U.S. Soldier. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8160 "2022-09-18T15:21:41Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > “C’mon you apes! Wanta live forever?” - unknown US platoon sergeant, 1917 (quoted by RAH). That’s a bowdlerized version of what Marine Sergeant Major Dan Daly said during the Battle of Belleau Wood. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8161 "2022-09-18T16:18:00Z")
Where should the Ukr. really start worrying about partisans? Donbas? Or is the anti-Russian sentiment enough that collaborators will be pointed out as soon as they roll into town? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8162 "2022-09-18T16:27:18Z")
From the Guardian: > **Russia has reacted to its military setbacks in the past week by increasing its missile attacks on civilian infrastructure even if they do not have any military impact, according to the latest intelligence report from the British Ministry of Defence.** It says in a post on Twitter that the move is intended to destroy the morale of the Ukrainian people. Like everything else Putin has tried, this is also destined to fail badly. _cf_ The morale of the British during the Blitz. 18,000 tons of high explosives dropped on London alone were unable to break the morale of the public in the Blitz ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8163 "2022-09-18T17:01:15Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > > [@aceplace57](#): > > > > It would be very easy for Ukrainian forces to over extend and try to hold too much territory. > > See, the PRO in this war for Ukr. is that they do not need to hold territory … the territory holds itself … IOW there are roughly 40.000.000 people helping to hold it. > > (does not _hold true_ for russians ;o) But remember, this is an area replete with Russian partisans (people who want Donbas to be in Russia). Their strength and community-support has diminished since this little donnybrook, but the people in the area are not all in favor of Ukraine reclaiming the territory. Probably more than 50%, but that other less-than-50% could be troublesome. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8164 "2022-09-18T17:10:42Z")
Provoking? They’re fighting a war. Isn’t aggressive action expected? 🤔 Maybe the reports of a negotiated withdrawal are true? I haven’t heard anything about Ukraine shelling Kherson city. Fighting street by steet would be costly for both countries. It does sound like a Ukrainian raid went bad. Maybe local partisans instead of the military. Guardian blog > [@](#): > > Russia and [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) have accused each other of provoking fighting in Kherson after a video showed clashes in the centre of the occupied Ukrainian city on Saturday evening. > > The Ukrainian army is leading a counter-offensive to retake the southern city, which was seized by the Russian army in the first weeks of the invasion. > > Russian official media Vesti-Crimea broadcast a video on Saturday evening showing an exchange of fire around two armoured vehicles near Kherson train station [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=404) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=406)