# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/801 "2022-03-02T01:54:43Z")
Thanks for pointing that out. The ruble is still worth more than the yen. It’s all relative. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/802 "2022-03-02T01:55:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > To show that there’s dissension in the ranks and not all Russians are as evil as their president? That’s a good reason to make the story up from whole cloth. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/803 "2022-03-02T01:57:07Z")
Yes, thanks. So thats 1 ruble is worth 1.3 cents to 1 ruble is worth 0.9 cents. Checks with my numbers. But it is a little more informative (to me) the way you wrote it, as rubles to the dollar. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/804 "2022-03-02T02:06:35Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > If this was true, why would Ukraine implicate allies in the FSB? Fear, Uncertainly and Doubt also affects tyrants. Maybe even more than regular people. If Putin thinks there are rats in his organization, there’s a good chance he’ll go on a purge rampage to try to eliminate them - which just makes it more likely that someone will off him to save themselves. This thing isn’t going to be won or lost on the battlefield. Ultimately, it’s a war in the mind of one person. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/805 "2022-03-02T02:10:58Z")
Well there are certainly a lot of people who want to help Putin expand his mind. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/806 "2022-03-02T02:13:10Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > If this was true, why would Ukraine implicate allies in the FSB? True or not, it will likely distract a few of Putin’s brain cells from Ukraine to internal dissention problems. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/807 "2022-03-02T02:18:43Z")
It was nice to see the Ukrainian ambassador being saluted in the State of the Union address, and Biden just announced that Russian aircraft are not going to be allowed in the US. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/808 "2022-03-02T03:04:27Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I agree with this…to a point. Certainly, you aren’t going to train a civilian to be effective in a few hours, or even a few days. However, you could train a civilian to fight from a fixed position on the defensive in a few hours, any while they won’t be anywhere near as effective as a trained soldier, they can still be effective either as a force multiplier when combined with good soldiers or to free up your trained soldiers for other, more advanced missions. This is especially true if the civilians are motivated volunteers who are defending their homes. Sure. However, this only works for simple jobs… and simple weapons. > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Russian tanks stuck in the mud and abandoned. Not part of the column, as far as I know. That second vehicle is actually a 2S3 self-propelled howitzer. That’s a hell of a thing to just leave behind. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/809 "2022-03-02T03:15:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Sure. However, this only works for simple jobs… and simple weapons. What could be more simple than an AK-47 (or variant)? That’s the whole point. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/810 "2022-03-02T03:22:20Z")
Then the answer to the question “is the West doing everything it can?” is yes. We ARE sending simple weapons that could be used by an insurgency. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/811 "2022-03-02T03:23:27Z")
From my reading, it sounds like the principal defense that Ukraine has against Russian air offense is about 600 S300 missile system rockets. Any thoughts on how effective that’s liable to prove if Russia decides to send everything in to level Kyiv, Kharkov, etc.? Do we know if they’re still there, or if they’ve all been used? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/812 "2022-03-02T03:39:14Z")
From The Guardian: > Russia president Vladimir **Putin has signed a decree to prohibit Russians from leaving the country with more than $10,000 in foreign currency** , Russia state media outlet [TASS](https://tass.com/economy/1414529) reports. Where exactly are they going to go, and how are they going to get there? The middle east? China? When a Russian plane leaves Russian airspace, where exactly can they fly and land? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/813 "2022-03-02T03:40:03Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Any thoughts on how effective that’s liable to prove if Russia decides to send everything in to level Kyiv, Kharkov, etc.? Do we know if they’re still there, or if they’ve all been used? Well, Ukraine is equipped with largely Russian aircraft. They abandoned using them in the Donbas war, because it seemed that Russian aircraft didn’t really have a useful defense against Russian SAM systems, so air power was negated. I’ve seen it speculated (and it’s the only believable reason I’ve seen) that would explain why Russia still does not have air superiority in this war after 6 days - they seem to know that their aircraft are vulnerable to the systems in Ukraine’s possession and have used them carefully as a result. Now, if they decided that Ukraine was an existential war for them, I could see them risking their entire air force to take out the SAM systems in Ukraine. But, there’s no way this is an existential war for them, and they don’t even seem willing to pit their few stealth F/A against Ukraine’s SAM systems. I suspect that 600 S300s \* 4 missiles = 2400 potential losses (yes, it would never be that perfect). That is potentially enough to make Russia’s air force pretty much useless, even if they only knock down 600 aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/814 "2022-03-02T03:47:37Z")
It’s 600 missiles, not 600 launchers. (Sorry, I’ll find my cite once I’m home again.) ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/815 "2022-03-02T03:54:24Z")
Ok, so 150 aircraft lost as a proposition. I still can’t see them happily eating that amount of losses short of an existential war at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/816 "2022-03-02T04:20:21Z")
Probably I should have found my cite before asking the question. I’m horrible at correctly recalling specifics (and horrible at remembering that). > [@](#): > > Ukraine’s air defense mainstay is its reported 250 towed S-300PT and faster-deploying self-propelled S-300PS surface-to-air missile systems (North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) codename SA-10 and SA-10B Grumble) with a range of up to fifty-six miles. Ukraine also has a few battalions of tracked S-300V1 (SA-12 Giant) systems, which can also shoot down short-range ballistic missiles. > > The three S-300 types are dispersed into five or six brigades and a similar number of independent regiments. > > […] > > Ukraine’s second air defense pillar is its seventy-two tracked medium-range Buk-M1 (NATO codename SA-11 Gadfly) air-defense systems in three regiments. These are supplemented by a smaller number (two regiments/five battalions) of S-125M Pechora (SA-3 Goa) refurbished into service from 2015 to 2017 with new radar-guidance seekers and indigenous propellant. > **[Patriot Missiles Aren’t the Answer for Ukrainian Air Defense](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/patriot-missiles-aren%E2%80%99t-answer-ukrainian-air-defense-197556)** > > The risk of renewed war with Russia is dangerously near—and Patriot missiles cannot help Ukraine in such a timeframe. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/817 "2022-03-02T04:37:13Z")
Funny how all that hand-wringing about supplying Ukraine with weapons didn’t make a lick of difference in Russia’s decision to invade. A question: I’ve seen “organic” used specifically in reference to radar and defense systems three times in the last few days now. From the article: > A properly integrated air defense network shouldn’t rely solely on the **organic** radars of its missile units. It seems to mean something like “built-in” or perhaps “moving as part of the same battle group”, but I can’t tell for sure. Anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/818 "2022-03-02T04:41:41Z")
Yeah, I wouldn’t want to fly (heh, not a pilot, anyway) in an environment the size of Texas with 250 S-300 systems looking for me unless I was in a very stealthy craft. Running “Wild Weasel” on one seems like it would be impossible without a stealth craft. Those systems can see far, and depending on the missiles they’re armed with they can shoot far. I can’t find any info on how many reloads they have, but that seems to explain the lack of a concerted air war from Russia at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/819 "2022-03-02T05:15:12Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > He might suffer a 7.62 mm brain haemorrhage. “I am making out the report now. We haven’t quite decided yet whether he committed suicide or died trying to escape.” ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/820 "2022-03-02T05:42:28Z")
I think airlines are still flying from Russia to Dubai, for example, from which one can fly practically anywhere in the world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=42)