# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 413
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8305 "2022-09-21T15:00:59Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Whether the retaliation would have to be nuclear I suppose is another question; but it would have to be massive. I would hope that before this happens, both China and India should publicly announce that if Russia uses any form of nuclear weapon, these countries will immediately join a complete and total economic sanction on Russia, and help the world enforce a total blockade of anything coming in or out of Russia. With an end goal of completely isolating the country and eventual breakup and disarmament. Let them know in advance what they can expect from their “allies”. As has been said, do India and China feel they’d benefit from Russia taking anything they want and destroying Europe? Do they feel they’d benefit from all out worldwide nuclear war? No? Then they need to step up to the plate NOW and let Russia know that if they use nukes they will cease to exist. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8306 "2022-09-21T15:07:51Z")
The West has another potent weapon at its disposal if Russia uses nukes in Ukraine. They could threaten economic sanctions against all countries that don’t likewise place them on Russia. China, India, etc. will likely use Russia’s use of nukes as face saving way to abandon Putin. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8307 "2022-09-21T16:19:15Z")
No, since you keep reminding everyone every third post. Like the guy who hit a three pointer from mid court once and will always bring it up. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8308 "2022-09-21T16:20:14Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > The West has another potent weapon at its disposal if Russia uses nukes in Ukraine. They could threaten economic sanctions against all countries that don’t likewise place them on Russia. China, India, etc. will likely use Russia’s use of nukes as face saving way to abandon Putin. 2000 called, it wants it geo-economic situation back. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8309 "2022-09-21T16:28:56Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Kharkiv and Luhansk are the comparable size as Rhode Island and Texas. Errrrr…Texas is 268,000 square miles. The entire Donbass is only about one-tenth of that. Unless I misunderstood you and you were merely referring to the **ratio** of size between RI/TX and Kharkiv/Luhansk. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8310 "2022-09-21T16:33:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If Russia launches a nuke, even a small one, NATO should respond with overwhelming conventional force - sink every Russian warship in the Black Sea, obliterate every Russian air defense and airfield site in Ukraine (including Crimea), and possibly more. Hopefully (and probably) there are already NATO assets in position to do this continuously within 24 hrs or so. Agreed. I’d go so far as to say that an invasion of Russia would be indicated, and not just from the Ukrainian border. Attack from every available route. From Finland, across the Arctic, Alaska, Japan, and the Caucasuses. ETA: Before the invasion, a clear goal should be stated to the Russian people. There’s a carrot as well as a stick. Get rid of the fascists without launching any further nukes, and they too can end up the way Japan and Germany did after WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8311 "2022-09-21T16:42:57Z")
Moderating: > [@AK84](#): > > 😂 > Somebody needs to read Indian doctrine. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Is your understanding of Indian doctrine better than your understanding of Russian military capabilities? > [@AK84](#): > > Much better than yours at least. > [@AK84](#): > > No, since you keep reminding everyone every third post. Like the guy who hit a three pointer from mid court once and will always bring it up. This is a Breaking News thread, and not a place to vent snark. Please step to the Pit if you wish to carry on the fish-slapping contest. No warnings issued, but let’s stop this now. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8312 "2022-09-21T16:51:47Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Which was inaccurate - by Stalingrad, the Soviets had more than enough rifles and ammunition. It’s not the only historical inaccuracy in that movie but it’s still a stirring scene. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8313 "2022-09-21T16:57:37Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Somebody needs to read Indian doctrine. Pray, give us a link. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8314 "2022-09-21T17:01:09Z")
(Alleged) prank call to Peskov’s son: > ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8315 "2022-09-21T17:12:59Z")
There are lots of videos of protests taking place in Russia against mobilization. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8316 "2022-09-21T17:31:44Z")
My read on Putin’s new strategy: He’s going to fill the Donbass with his new soldiers, (who will not be trained enough for offensive operations but can sit in the Donbass in defensive formations), have a fake referendum that will overwhelmingly pass, then annex the region and declare the ‘Soecial Operation’ to be over. And since the Donbass is now Russian territory, if Ukraine tries to take it back it will be seen as an attack on Russia and Putin will threaten a nuclear response. This is primarily a delaying tactic. He sees time on his side if he can stop bleeding military assets and soldiers. He will try to hunker down and wait until the depths of winter, hoping that a reinforced Donbass stops the Ukrainians from advancing. His ultimate hope is that a weary Europe, tired of outrageous energy bills and rationing, will pressure Ukraine into accepting the situation and ending the war. Putin will probably hint that gas shipments could restart immediately if the Ukrainians stop their ‘war of aggression’. Domestically, he will use Ukraine’s attempt to reclaim the Donbass as proof that the ‘Special Operation’ was necessary, and there was no war until Ukraine started it. The Russians are just peace-loving people who yearn to be reunited with their brethren, but the wolves of NATO were on the doorstep stopping them with Ukraine as their proxy. He’s already made the outrageous claim that the war is going according to plan, and that it was always about the Donbass and nothing else. Everything else was either a feint or necessary to degrade the Ukrainian military or something. It might even work. He’ll probably start flooding social media with fake stories about secret intelligence that Ukraine/NATO were preparing to attack before the ‘special operation’, or fake evidence that Ukraine is just a NATO front, or other disinformation to sow confusion just enough to give cover to the people willing to negotiate away Ukraine’s territory. He’ll probably organize marches in the Donbass against Ukraine and for Russia, to show that ‘the peoole’ want to be with Russia. It worked in South Ossetia and in Crimea. It might work again. Never underestimate the lack of focus of the west over time. Putin is just waiting for another squirrel to come along. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8317 "2022-09-21T17:39:08Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Attacking infrastructure is something the USAF does on day one of a war. And that’s everyone’s doctrine including the Russians Yeah. No. The first stage of an air war is taking out the other guy’s air defense and air power. You will recall that in the Second Invasion of Iraq we used non–destructive means to take out the Iraqi electrical grid. We also did not bomb the bridges we intended to use. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8318 "2022-09-21T17:46:35Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And since the Donbass is now Russian territory, if Ukraine tries to take it back it will be seen as an attack on Russia and Putin will threaten a nuclear response. Which might align with the Russian military’s continuing spasmodic attempt to take small slivers of territory in the Donetsk oblast, which otherwise look strategically meaningless or even counter-productive to shoring up defenses elsewhere. But they still only hold about half of it, which is a problem for them. They still also need that territory in the southern Zaporizhzhia oblast to form a land bridge to Crimea, but that’s not part of the Donbas. Putin has his testicles in a vice. Back down he might end up dead. Escalate he might end up dead. Secure leaders DO NOT release pre-recorded statements. That’s a sign that he is sweating security and doesn’t want a live press conference for fear of giving an assassin a time and place to work with. We’re probably entering a particularly dangerous phase here. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8319 "2022-09-21T17:50:31Z")
If he can stop the bleeding and hunker down for winter, he can build,up forces and try to take the rest of the Donbass in spring. Or, he can sue for peace and get it, then slowly build up forces in the Donbass over a couole of years and then launch another ‘special operation’ to take the rest. That’s essentially what he did after 2014. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8320 "2022-09-21T17:51:35Z")
Which emphasizes how important it is that we keep supplying Ukraine as much as possible so they can keep the pressure on Russia and Putin. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8321 "2022-09-21T18:03:27Z")
Putin’s announcement of a major military callup has led to mass exodus of ,military age men out of the country. > **[Flights Out of Russia Sell Out After Putin Orders Military Call-Up](https://www.thedailybeast.com/flights-out-of-russia-sell-out-after-putin-orders-military-call-up)** > > Airlines in the country are also refusing to sell tickets to men aged 18 to 65, according to reports. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8322 "2022-09-21T18:14:24Z")
See Also: sinking ship; rats. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8323 "2022-09-21T18:27:50Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > If he can stop the bleeding and hunker down for winter, he can build,up forces and try to take the rest of the Donbass in spring. Or, he can sue for peace and get it, then slowly build up forces in the Donbass over a couole of years and then launch another ‘special operation’ to take the rest. That’s essentially what he did after 2014. 2014 he saw the whole Ukraine issue as an unfortunate mess he had to get involved in. He wanted minimal direct force used. In 2022, he wanted to go in full. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8324 "2022-09-21T18:33:18Z")
Sure, but my point was that once he secured Crimea, he started looking for more Ukrainian territory. So there is no reason to believe he would stop with the territory he has now, even if he calls and end to the ‘special operation’. People who think they can achieve a peace by giving him territory are really just giving him a temporary pause to regroup and rebuild so he can take more. And if his energy blackmail works, expect to see more of it in the future. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=412) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=414)