# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 414
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8325 "2022-09-21T19:17:23Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > as long as they stick to their own backyard All they want is the land that joins theirs. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8326 "2022-09-21T19:32:06Z")
Where/how do you “hunker down” 300k soldiers for the winter in a manner that isn’t susceptible to artillery? That is - after you get them there by some means other than teleportation. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8327 "2022-09-21T19:53:01Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > If he can stop the bleeding and hunker down for winter, he can build,up forces and try to take the rest of the Donbass in spring. Or, he can sue for peace and get it, then slowly build up forces in the Donbass over a couole of years and then launch another ‘special operation’ to take the rest. That’s essentially what he did after 2014. Sure. But Zelensky and the non-Russian toadies from NATO are also aware of this, and won’t allow Putin to pursue this plan. The only way the plan works is if Ukrainian forces are weak enough to be overrun by a WWII style charge of a cannon fodder meat shield. Maybe a million guys in one location, armed with AK 47s and instructions to march in the general direction of Kiev until they get there or get shot on the way are enough to overrun the Ukrainian defenses. Most likely not, but that seems to be Putin’s last hope. In other words, Russia has no chance of winning no matter what they do. They might manage to take Ukraine or even the rest of the world down with them, but there’s no chance that they emerge with a victory, not even a Pyrrhic victory. Putin’s best, but very slim hope, is as above, but Russia as a country has a better option as I mentioned in an earlier post. Get rid of the fascists, take the loss, and beg the west to be rebuilt the way we rebuilt Japan and Germany after WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8328 "2022-09-21T20:44:15Z")
Some Azovstal defenders released in prisoner exchange. Kateryna ‘Ptashka’ Polischuk: [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdNHo1mXEAANdRd?format=jpg&name=small) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdNHo1mXEAANdRd?format=jpg&name=small) [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdNHpECXkAApOZZ?format=jpg&name=small) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdNHpECXkAApOZZ?format=jpg&name=small) Mykhailo ‘Pianist’: [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdNHpN9WAAEuUL-?format=jpg&name=small) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdNHpN9WAAEuUL-?format=jpg&name=small) [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdNHpdHX0AMWhMS?format=jpg&name=small) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdNHpdHX0AMWhMS?format=jpg&name=small) ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8329 "2022-09-21T20:59:49Z")
Five Britons also released, including those sentenced to death by Donetsk kangaroo court: [![](https://e3.365dm.com/22/09/1600x900/skynews-saudi-arabia-pow-aiden-aslin_5907291.jpg?20220921214315) ](https://e3.365dm.com/22/09/1600x900/skynews-saudi-arabia-pow-aiden-aslin_5907291.jpg?20220921214315) ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8330 "2022-09-21T21:09:13Z")
> **[Two Americans among 10 prisoners released to Saudi Arabia from Ukraine](https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2022/09/21/Two-Americans-among-10-prisoners-released-from-Russia-to-Saudi-Arabia)** > > A plane carrying 10 prisoners of war arrived from Russia to Riyadh on Wednesday following successful mediation efforts by Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince A plane carrying 10 prisoners of war arrived from Russia to Riyadh on Wednesday following successful mediation efforts by Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, according to the Saudi Press Agency (SPA) and sources familiar with the matter. The Saudi Crown Prince had been in direct contact with the Kremlin and Ukraine as part of the mediation efforts for the release of the prisoners, which included five British citizens, one Moroccan, one Swede, one Croat, and two Americans. Includes Americans Alexander Drueke and Andy Huynh and amongst the Brits, Aiden Aslin aka cossackgundi ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8331 "2022-09-21T21:11:58Z")
> **[Putin Ally Dies After Falling Down Stairs on Day of Russia Mobilization](https://www.newsweek.com/putin-ally-dies-falling-down-stairs-day-russia-mobilization-1744944)** > > Scientist Anatoly Gerashchenko is the latest Russian public figure who has died in mysterious circumstances since February. Not a window or smoking; very suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8332 "2022-09-21T21:18:08Z")
In Russia, stairs fall on _you_. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8333 "2022-09-21T21:41:37Z")
Azovstal commanders also released: > ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8334 "2022-09-21T22:35:09Z")
The deal: > > ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8335 "2022-09-21T22:38:11Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > So - five Azovstal garrison leaders are to stay in Turkey under Erdogan’s personal protection until the end of the war. Old-fashioned POW parole: > **[Parole | Prisoners of war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parole#Prisoners_of_war)** > > Parole is "the agreement of persons who have been taken prisoner by an enemy that they will not again take up arms against those who captured them, either for a limited time or during the continuance of the war." The US Department of Defense defines parole more broadly: "Parole agreements are promises given the captor by a POW to fulfill stated conditions, such as not to bear arms or not to escape, in consideration of special privileges, such as release from captivity or lessened restraint."\[ The... We in the US don’t get to see that since military law prohibits US servicemembers from accepting parole. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8336 "2022-09-21T22:41:53Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > > If Russia launches a nuke, even a small one, NATO should respond with overwhelming conventional force - sink every Russian warship in the Black Sea, obliterate every Russian air defense and airfield site in Ukraine (including Crimea), and possibly more. Hopefully (and probably) there are already NATO assets in position to do this continuously within 24 hrs or so. > > Agreed. I’d go so far as to say that an invasion of Russia would be indicated, and not just from the Ukrainian border. Attack from every available route. From Finland, across the Arctic, Alaska, Japan, and the Caucasuses. > > ETA: Before the invasion, a clear goal should be stated to the Russian people. There’s a carrot as well as a stick. Get rid of the fascists without launching any further nukes, and they too can end up the way Japan and Germany did after WWII. An invasion of Russia would be just the thing to get Russia to launch more nukes. I agree with **iiandyiiii** ’s suggestion: a nuke should be met with a full NATO conventional intervention in _Ukraine_, but no further. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8337 "2022-09-21T23:09:36Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > An invasion of Russia would be just the thing to get Russia to launch more nukes. > > I agree with **iiandyiiii** ’s suggestion: a nuke should be met with a full NATO conventional intervention in _Ukraine_, but no further. I’m not sure how that would make a difference. The hypothetical is that Russia has already launched one nuke due to the Ukrainian army having even greater conventional success. In that scenario Putin wouldn’t all of a sudden stop just because the Russian troops in Ukraine are now being killed by American, German, British, French etc. troops rather than Ukrainian troops. The only hope at that point would be to attack Russia itself and hope that enough of the generals realize that their best interest is to overthrow Putin and surrender to NATO. That won’t happen if the NATO troops limit themselves to operations within the borders of Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8338 "2022-09-21T23:18:14Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > The only hope at that point would be to attack Russia itself and hope that enough of the generals realize that their best interest is to overthrow Putin and surrender to NATO. That won’t happen if the NATO troops limit themselves to operations within the borders of Ukraine. Sure, but you don’t want Putin to turn this into Great Patriotic War version 2.0. If Russia tries it’s “escalate-to-deescalate” gambit, I think the best thing to do would be diplomatic pressure on any country that considers itself close to Russia, especially China and India who would have the most to lose, and a general air attack against Russian air and anti-air bases in European Russia and the Russian Far East, a full Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses campaign, and an announcement to the people of Russia that it must stop the war in Ukraine, go back to pre-2014 borders with disposition of Crimea to be determined by a fair plebiscite, and it can keep its nukes as long as Vladimir Putin no longer has any authority to launch them. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8339 "2022-09-21T23:19:14Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Putin says that they have lost 6000 men since the war started. Even if he were telling the truth– That’s an average of roughly 857 men killed per month. Contrast that with Afghanistan, when they lost 15,000 over ten years, or 125/month. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8340 "2022-09-21T23:46:38Z")
> [@SunUp](#): > > especially China and India who would have the most to lose, In the event Putin deploys even a small battlefield nuke, China and India will need to pick sides. They will need to come together with NATO and other countries to enforce a complete and total embargo on everything going into or out of Russia, along with a land and naval blockade. Complete and utter cut-off from the rest of the world. Every Russian citizen deported back to Russia. Russia can content itself with allies North Korea and Syria. This followed by an ultimatum that unless there is a change in Russia’s military stance, and/or leadership, the country will cease to exist. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8341 "2022-09-22T00:07:40Z")
> [@SunUp](#): > > Sure, but you don’t want Putin to turn this into Great Patriotic War version 2.0. It’s a little late to be worrying about that when nuclear war is already underway. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8342 "2022-09-22T00:27:19Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This is primarily a delaying tactic. He sees time on his side if he can stop bleeding military assets and soldiers. Time is not on his side. Europe is rapidly working on a Russian-free energy policy while at the same time restricting technological products to Russia. Putin is already facing a declining population and this war will accelerate the process. He isn’t just digging a hole, he’s created a sinkhole that will grow on it’s own. Imagine how demoralizing it’s going to be to be bombed with your own weapons. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8343 "2022-09-22T00:40:45Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > See Also: sinking ship; rats. I don’t think that’s fair at all to the men fleeing involuntary service in an unjust war. More like… doves take flight. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8344 "2022-09-22T01:18:44Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > He’s going to fill the Donbass with his new soldiers, (who will not be trained enough for offensive operations but can sit in the Donbass in defensive formations) If he gets 1/10th of the supposed 300,000 men at all trained and into Ukraine by, say, the end of this year I’ll be stunned, and he ought to bless his lucky stars. Like the mention of nukes it’s a bluff and attempted morale strike against Ukraine and NATO. Which has already not worked as they probably have more accurate information about the true state of his troops in Ukraine then he does. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=413) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=415)