# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 425
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8547 "2022-09-25T18:21:17Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > On top of all that Putin doesn’t remotely have the training capacity or equipment to support them. And further on top of all that, Putin is trying to micromanage the war and the generals are fighting amongst each other Even beyond training capacity, he doesn’t even have the organizational capacity to say “you go HERE, but you go HERE” especially with a relatively large amount of untrained or even raw recruits who probably are not as flexible in what they could do right now. It would take months to just organize them all, of course, unless the situation is so desperate that you want either a fairly literal human wave of attackers. If this were truly a great patriotic war you would also be able to shove them into relatively unsupervised support roles, but I don’t think doing so before being trained, before being vetted for capabilites would work very well , and it would be dangerous to have unwilling people allowed to handle expensive back end equipment and inefficient to watch over them with sufficient trained and loyal troops to make sure they do their job. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8548 "2022-09-25T18:29:28Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > That’s very impressive. What gives it away that they are fake? Everything. The jet looks superimposed,the flames out the back aren’t right, it doesn’t move like it should and the explosion is chopped and spliced in. Watch it in full screen mode. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8549 "2022-09-25T18:31:01Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > **Should I break the Twitter/Video link above?** I don’t know why you would. Reading the comments on the twitter threads reveals that the people geolocating the footage determine that the video initially reported as a Ka-52 (the third video in @Al128’s post above) is actually the same incident as the second video (reposted with slightly higher resolution by @Walken_After_Midnight). They’re shot from opposite directions, and yet the the plume of smoke the plane flies past after it’s hit but before it crashes is in the right spot, and the entire scene maps perfectly onto the Google Earth view of the area east of Kupiansk. Either someone went to the trouble to create a photorealistic model of the Kupiansk environment (even the latest Microsoft Flight Sim doesn’t procedurally generate environments that accurately, so someone would have to have done it manually) in a combat flight sim and then recorded an in-game shootdown from multiple directions, or this actually happened. Geolocation: > > > 🇺🇦 Ukraine Weapons Tracker @UAWeapons Google Maps link to the scene: https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.7152771,37.7048695&z=13&output=embed&dg=ntvb I have no comment on the musical taste of the Ukrainian soldiers adding soundtracks to their drone video before posting them to social media. In any event, this area is very close to the Ukrainian bridgehead across the Oskil and will likely be under Ukrainian control within a week or two, at which time stills of the crash scene will probably become available. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8550 "2022-09-25T18:37:47Z")
Moderating: > [@Broomstick](#): > > That, and every Russian of military age that leaves instead of being forced to fight is one less soldier in Putin’s army, reducing Putin’s resources to fight this war. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > **Modnudge** : This exchange also needs to end or move to a new thread. It really isn’t on topic after this many posts. As what\_exit already said, this is the breaking news thread, and long digressions about whether other countries ought to accept Russian draft dodgers really aren’t appropriate. Fortunately, we have another thread for that: > [@Should the West open its borders to Russians fleeing the draft?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-west-open-its-borders-to-russians-fleeing-the-draft/972205): > > [Originally posted in the thread “Russia invades Ukraine”] A debate is shaping up within the EU over whether EU member states are right to be tightening border restrictions against Russian citizens fleeing the draft. The main argument for such restrictions is that keeping disgruntled Russians in Russia increases the pressure on the regime to end the war and/or depose Putin. (There is also concern that some arriving Russians could turn out to be spies or saboteurs working for the regime.) The … Please stop posting about it here, unless it’s to post some factual news item, such as a change in how some other country is actually handling the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8551 "2022-09-25T18:38:52Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Either someone went to the trouble to create a photorealistic model of the Kupiansk environment (even the latest Microsoft Flight Sim doesn’t procedurally generate environments that accurately, More likely they’ve superimposed images from a drone. If there was a drone in the area that captured a shoot down then they would fly it over the wreckage. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8552 "2022-09-25T18:44:56Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > > [@What\_Exit](#): > > > > **Should I break the Twitter/Video link above?** > > I don’t know why you would. I agree. I don’t think there’s any objective support for the claim that the videos are “fake”. Everything in wartime news should be viewed with some initial skepticism, but confident declarations without evidence that something is definitely fake, no question about it, are not helpful either. Folks should just be aware that the musical soundtracks are awful and suggestive of a low-quality video game, but that has no bearing on the authenticity of the videos themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8553 "2022-09-25T18:53:52Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > but confident declarations without evidence that something is definitely fake, no question about it, are not helpful either. the video is it’s own evidence. The plane appears and disappears multiple times and the explosion is scabbed in. You can see the massive change in the plume just pop in. Watch it in full screen. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8554 "2022-09-25T18:55:48Z")
I suspect the videos aren’t initially made for us anyway, they’re fist pumping celebrations for the Ukrainians themselves. The music makes more sense in that context. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8555 "2022-09-25T18:59:40Z")
**OK, at this point drop any further discussion of the videos.** ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8556 "2022-09-25T19:15:26Z")
Ukraine increases anti-air capability. > > **[NASAMS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASAMS)** > > NASAMS (Norwegian Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile System, also known as the National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile System) is a distributed and networked short- to medium-range: 4  ground-based air defense system developed by Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace (KDA) and Raytheon. The system defends against unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), helicopters, cruise missiles, unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAVs), and fixed wing aircraft,: 11  firing any of a wide range of existing missiles. > NASAMS was t... ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8557 "2022-09-25T19:19:30Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yeah, I was wondering about that - it’s not like the Russia armed forces haven’t had women before (they have). > > Um… sexism, maybe? I think female medical professionals may be subject to mobilization. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8558 "2022-09-25T20:55:20Z")
View of a border crossing from Russia to Georgia: > ([Geolocation](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Georgia/@42.7854865,44.6275622,877m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x40440cd7e64f626b:0x4f907964122d4ac2!8m2!3d42.315407!4d43.356892)) ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8559 "2022-09-25T21:26:50Z")
The next two or three weeks should be telling. Currently, there appear to be several holes in Russia’s lines in the northeast where Ukr forces have established bridgeheads across the east side of the Oskil River. Additionally, Ukr. forces are attempting a wide flanking movement north of the strategic town of Lyman. It is very doubtful Russia currently has sufficient forces to send to the Luhansk/Kharkiv border area to prevent further collapse of their hastily set up defensive line that was supposed to rely on the Oskil as a natural defense feature. There is lots of anecdotal evidence that Russians are just grabbing warm bodies with little or even no training. It will be instructive to see if they choose to use their newest recruits as a meat shield in this area, or if they will take a more disciplined approach and assign these troops primarily to rear areas. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8560 "2022-09-25T21:43:25Z")
Here is map from Russian milblogger source: [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fdhz6tiXgAAOZnf?format=jpg&name=large) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fdhz6tiXgAAOZnf?format=jpg&name=large) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8561 "2022-09-25T21:45:57Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Ukraine increases anti-air capability. If they truly have NASAMS (and I have no reason to doubt it) that’s a couple of months ahead of the previously announced schedule, and is excellent news. Part of Putin’s strategy of desperation is wreaking mass destruction with cruise missiles and other means of indiscriminate bombardment. Air defense, and the ability to sink more Russian battleships and down more Russian fighter jets will be crucial. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8562 "2022-09-25T21:47:51Z")
Russians react to a Ukrainian: > _Khokhol_ is commonly used by Russians as an ethnic slur for Ukrainians. No comment. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8563 "2022-09-25T22:26:13Z")
Into the meatgrinder, then. Perhaps it’s edited but none of them answered the “why” question. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8564 "2022-09-25T22:35:32Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > The next two or three weeks should be telling. Currently, there appear to be several holes in Russia’s lines in the northeast where Ukr forces have established bridgeheads across the east side of the Oskil River. Additionally, Ukr. forces are attempting a wide flanking movement north of the strategic town of Lyman. It is very doubtful Russia currently has sufficient forces to send to the Luhansk/Kharkiv border area to prevent further collapse of their hastily set up defensive line that was supposed to rely on the Oskil as a natural defense feature. I believe the next few weeks may be the most crucial of all. Ukraine needs to penetrate deeply into Luhansk/Kharkiv. The Russians are going to spend the winter establishing administrative control over their annexed territory and building deep defenses. The legitimacy of their claims is weakened if Ukraine gets a strong foothold in Luhansk. There’s going to be some extremely difficult decisions next spring. Russians will have at least 150,000 poorly trained troops in the annexed territory. _Plus_ the regular Russian army that’s fought this year. There’s a short window of opportunity now for Ukraine to strike. Russian early efforts at mobilization aren’t doing well. But they’ll clamp down, arrest people and intimidate the population into complying. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8565 "2022-09-25T22:37:20Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Into the meatgrinder, then. Yep, I’m pleased my taxes are going towards shortening the lives of Z-Russians. Give me a munitions drone and I’ll do it myself. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8566 "2022-09-25T23:11:17Z")
I’m not sure which side will be worse affected by winter conditions. The Russians are on the defense, so they will probably have greater benefit of underground bunkers and buildings. The Ukrainians will have better western-supplied winter warfare clothing and equipment. Given their poor record with logistics, one might assume the Russians would come off worse in that respect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=424) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=426)