# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 434
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8727 "2022-09-29T04:57:07Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > As the military and I suppose political organizations of the Donbas areas are about to become Russian Federation members. There should occur a marked change in military tactics. There will be no discernable difference. Russia already occupied these regions, considered it their land, and staffed and coordinated with the local militias. Rubber stamping some paperwork that no one else in the world recognizes makes no difference. It is a tactic a loser does to save face amongst his friends while everyone else sniggers. > [@Kedikat](#): > > Otherwise a terrible black eye. Russia is all out of non-blacked eyes. They exposed themselves as a hot mess when they drove their invasion force down the main road and got their asses handed to them by a much smaller country. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8728 "2022-09-29T05:20:37Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > Does this obviously telegraph what Russia has to do, very soon? A big offensive to take outstanding Donetsk territory? With what force? The old men they just called up and gave a day’s training and an AK? They aren’t going to be capable of launching any kind of offensive. The experienced soldiers left are exhausted, and equipment is running low. Ukraine forces have seriously limited Russia’s logistical capability to reinforce and supply them. It appears to me that Putin knows this. His mobilization troops are going to be piled into the Donbas as a defense while he frantically tries to consolidate territory and complete the preparations for declaring it all part of Russia. Then he’ll announce the ‘special operation’ to be over, and threaten nukes if Ukraine tries to take back its territory, which Putin will declare is an attack on Russia itself. It’s not likely to work, but it may be the last card he really has to play. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8729 "2022-09-29T07:53:26Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [https://morganrlewis.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/mop-051.jpg](https://morganrlewis.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/mop-051.jpg) I’m curious what this means. Maybe it’s obvious to everyone else but I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8730 "2022-09-29T08:05:42Z")
It’s from an obscure 1988 movie called _Moon over Parador._ I guess it shows that no matter who you vote for in a dictatorship, the dictator wins. Yeah, I had to look it up. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8731 "2022-09-29T08:45:55Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > It would be cool if I could understand one word of what he’s saying, or understand why he’s wearing an elf hat. It’d be even more cool if this poor schmuck hadn’t been forced (at gunpoint?) to debase himself on camera. That video is some seriously uncivilized shit. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8732 "2022-09-29T10:16:40Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Yeah, it seems that seismic stations registered an explosion near them: More and more it’s getting harder to do things in secret these days. If it’s not your cellphone blabbing where you are it’s those pesky geologists picking up your carefully planted sabotage explosions. > [@Kedikat](#): > > Did, maybe, the U.S. and Ukraine, act as barrier troops to German government option of having natural gas flow, part of negotiation with Russia? Or next level conspiracy. Did German government also go in on it, to eliminate the option as a hope for folks in Germany, in any negotiations? Given the reports of Russian vessels in the near vicinity of the leak areas prior to said leak the evidence is leaning heavily towards Russia. It wasn’t the Ukrainians - they don’t have naval capacity, or a navy. I realize your favorite team in this conflict likes to think everyone is vitality dependent on them for their fuel needs but it just ain’t so. Russia might have been convenient and lower cost for a period of time, but they are NOT the only option. Nice job _just asking questions._ Also, you used “barrier troop” improperly there - it’s not a group to inconvenience those on the front line, it’s a group there to _kill_ anyone who doesn’t toe the line. This is inconvenient, but it’s not fatal. > [@Cardigan](#): > > I’ve been following this pincer movement for days. Let’s hope the weather cooperates. I wonder if commanders in the field will obey Putin’s no retreat order, even if it means the loss or capture of ~3500 Russian troops currently in the salient? I believe that in addition to “no retreat” they’ve been ordered “no surrender” - in essence, they’ve been ordered to fight to the death. I doubt that will actually happen the way Putin wants it to. Either he seriously over estimates the loyalty he inspires or he thinks he can terrify people into dying for his cause. > [@Gorsnak](#): > > The hosts are in full ‘The Tzar’s orders are perfect; the Boyars are to blame for how they carry them out’ mode: Interesting that these people (assuming the translation is correct) are openly calling the “special military operation” an actual war. A part of me wonders if the calling up of so many unsuitable for combat men is deliberate, a way of internal “cleansing” of the population. That, along with the numbers of ethnic minorities winding up on the front lines, makes me wonder if the loyalists and their families are being spared, and the ethnic Russians to some degree as well. > [@Kedikat](#): > > It is interesting to note, that as soon as the regions who voted to join the Russian Federation are officially accepted, Voting at the point of a gun is NOT voting. Also, many videos of the ballot counting shows that many of those ballots are blank, not even marked. Again, that’s not voting. > [@Kedikat](#): > > all the current militias and so forth that exist in these areas, come under direct Russian military control. There is a distinct difference between _saying_ those militias are under direct control and them _actually being under direct control._ Also - not at all impressed with how the Russian forces have been commanded in the field. Those Donbas militias might remain more effective under local control than under the ever-changing revolving door generals of the Russian military. Except, of course, those militias under local control might not be as loyal as the ~~tsar~~ Vladimir Putin would wish. > [@Kedikat](#): > > That sounds like tons of fun! A Donetsk Militia General, raised to Russian General? Hmmmm Full pay and pension? Full command allowance? Followed shortly by a fall out of one of those dangerous windows on the upper floor of a building, or an accident while smoking… No salary or perks are worth it if you don’t live long enough to enjoy them. > [@Kedikat](#): > > I take about 6 hours a day and many sources to try and parse out all the stuff. Just a suggestion - sometimes quality is better than quantity. > [@Kedikat](#): > > It seems to me that Russia can no longer cede any territory from those areas that “voted” to be in the Russian Federation even tactically temporarily. So… you are coming out completely in favor of Russia forcibly taking and assimilating someone else’s territory? Wow. > [@Kedikat](#): > > Otherwise a terrible black eye. A black eye? We’re lurching closer to WWIII and Russia muttering about the use of nukes isn’t helping one bit. A day may come we may all wish it had _only_ been a black eye for Russia, and that includes Russia. > [@Kedikat](#): > > But a large portion of Donetsk is still out there. > Does this obviously telegraph what Russia has to do, very soon? A big offensive to take outstanding Donetsk territory? Why the _hell_ are you arguing that Russia should take MORE territory? It is highly doubtful that Dontesk “wants” to be part of Russia. Once again - voting at the point of a gun is not voting. Now you’re saying these _other_ parts of Dontesk which weren’t even given a sham vote are now automatically part of Russia? > [@Kedikat](#): > > Does this obviously telegraph what Russia has to do, very soon? A big offensive to take outstanding Donetsk territory? No, Russia does not “have to” take anymore more territory. They didn’t have to take ANY territory. They didn’t have to start this war. Putin and the Kremlin are absolutely doing this entirely of their own volition. > [@Kedikat](#): > > There are ongoing successful Ukraine incursions to the Luhansk/Kharkov and northern Donetsk areas. YAY! Go Ukraine! слава україні! Russia is rapidly becoming a laughing stock. Their Black Sea Fleet was sunk _by a nation that doesn’t even have a navy!_ Their military would be a joke except there’s nothing funny about people being sent to a battle front with no training, rusty guns, lack of food and warm clothing, sending uninformed troops into the freaking _Red Forest_ of Chernobyl to dig trenches, drafting old men, and feeding ethnic minorities into a meat grinder. You are, of course, free to be a Putin apologist here (I’ll just note that your hero Putin does _not_ permit that sort of minority view in his country) but I’m also free to mention that you are backing the wrong team. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8733 "2022-09-29T10:36:54Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Russia is rapidly becoming a laughing stock. Russia was already a laughing stock. Their next prospective milestone will be getting declared a **[terrorist state.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/29/ukraine-calls-for-russia-to-be-declared-terrorist-state-after-damning-report)** ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8734 "2022-09-29T10:47:27Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > It is interesting to note, that as soon as the regions who voted to join the Russian Federation are officially accepted, all the current militias and so forth that exist in these areas, come under direct Russian military control. so it’s safe to say, they will be even less effective, then? > [@Broomstick](#): > > A part of me wonders if the calling up of so many unsuitable for combat men is deliberate, a way of internal “cleansing” of the population. That, along with the numbers of ethnic minorities winding up on the front lines, makes me wonder if the loyalists and their families are being spared, and the ethnic Russians to some degree as well. I think that is fairly evident by now … what the USA should be doing now is stirring the pot in those “abused” regions and drum up local problems/uprising/revolt there … worst case that minor fire needs to be put out (=resources!) … best case: you get a real movement going … It would be really interesting to see the first russian “senior administrative” being dragged through the streets of xyzstan, Ceauscescou style … > ETA: might be one of those regions w/ high muslim population - there seems to be the smell of revolution (uprising in Iran!) in the air. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8735 "2022-09-29T11:06:57Z")
> . sad state of affairs … ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8736 "2022-09-29T11:09:10Z")
I hear there’s even going to be a parade! ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8737 "2022-09-29T11:13:13Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > sometimes quality is better than quantity. That’s not the Russian doctrine! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8738 "2022-09-29T11:19:14Z")
I have just signed a decree annexing the entirety of Moscow. Sorry, Vlad, but it’s mine now. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8739 "2022-09-29T11:49:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I don’t think retirement is high on the wish list of Russian Generals in this war. I disagree, I think many of them would love to retire. They just don’t expect to - either the Ukrainian’s get them on the battlefield, or Putin gets them for disloyalty. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8740 "2022-09-29T12:01:34Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > [https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1575435198962999300](https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1575435198962999300) Sending all the men of a city off to a distant front isn’t mobilization, it’s potentially genocide. A convenient way of stripping the men from a predominantly Muslim area? Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8741 "2022-09-29T12:07:43Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > More and more it’s getting harder to do things in secret these days. If it’s not your cellphone blabbing where you are it’s those pesky geologists picking up your carefully planted sabotage explosions. Interestingly using seismology to monitor explosives and more specifically nuclear testing goes back over 35 years. A couple of my friends were research scientists involved in that back in the day. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8742 "2022-09-29T12:42:31Z")
A quality presentation of the Ukrainian breakthru in the north. > **[The 90km journey that changed the course of the war in Ukraine](https://ig.ft.com/ukraine-counteroffensive/)** > > How Ukraine’s counteroffensive in the north-east dramatically turned the tide of the seven-month-long invasion ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8743 "2022-09-29T12:43:48Z")
That link is for subscribers only ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8744 "2022-09-29T12:46:42Z")
Works for me??? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8745 "2022-09-29T13:04:34Z")
And it just worked for me. I’m not sure what happened before. My apologies. Excellent article. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8746 "2022-09-29T13:42:22Z")
Yes, I enjoyed that very much. Go Ukraine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=433) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=435)