# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 435
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8747 "2022-09-29T16:24:37Z")
relatively good article on what’s going on in Moscow’s circles of power … tl;dr … resignation, rather than some sort of resistance, rather dire outlook concerning excalations > **[Putin Always Chooses Escalation - The Moscow Times](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/09/29/putin-always-chooses-escalation-a78923)** > > Opinion | After seven months of war with Ukraine, Russian President Vladimir Putin has declared mobilization and is poised to annex four occupied Ukrainian regions after staged referendums. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8748 "2022-09-29T16:50:28Z")
In terms of the mobilization, Russians COULD do much (primarily in terms of defensive operations) with 300k more soldiers. I guess it remains to be seen how they’ll end up using them in actual practice, and what kind of training they’ll receive. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8749 "2022-09-29T16:53:59Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Russians COULD do much (primarily in terms of defensive operations) with 300k more soldiers Enough to overload a lot of killbot counters… ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8750 "2022-09-29T17:19:50Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > A quality presentation of the Ukrainian breakthru in the north. > > [The 90km journey that changed the course of the war in Ukraine](https://ig.ft.com/ukraine-counteroffensive/) Thanks for this, great read. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8751 "2022-09-29T17:20:12Z")
News is reporting the US will buy $3 billion’ worth of arms from South Korea and give them to Ukraine. It would make sense if it’s 155mm shells and 227mm rockets since that’s what America is running low in. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8752 "2022-09-29T18:00:49Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I believe that in addition to “no retreat” they’ve been ordered “no surrender” - in essence, they’ve been ordered to fight to the death. Shades of [Stalingrad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad#Soviet_victory) in reverse, albeit an order of magnitude plus smaller, 91,000 prisoners instead of 3,500. > On 22 January, Rokossovsky once again offered Paulus a chance to surrender. Paulus requested that he be granted permission to accept the terms. He told Hitler that he was no longer able to command his men, who were without ammunition or food.[[153]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad#cite_note-FOOTNOTEShirer1990930-162) Hitler rejected it on a point of honour. He telegraphed the 6th Army later that day, claiming that it had made a historic contribution to the greatest struggle in German history and that it should stand fast “to the last soldier and the last bullet.” ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8753 "2022-09-29T18:06:31Z")
this is not just any nutcase guy … Member of the Presidium of the Coordination Council, Head of the National Anti-Crisis Management, ex Minister, Ambassador 😬 > not sure how certain that is … but best to keep an open eye and see if signals continue to build in the north over the next few weeks… ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8754 "2022-09-29T18:36:24Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It wasn’t the Ukrainians - they don’t have naval capacity, or a navy. What kind of naval capacity is actually necessary to lower IEDs from a boat? FWIW, Russian vessels visit that area at least once a week. It could be almost anybody with access to explosives, a boat, and a GPS. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8755 "2022-09-29T18:43:05Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > not sure how certain that is … but best to keep an open eye and see if signals continue to build in the north over the next few weeks… Sounds like this guy is in fantasy land. I don’t think the entire Belarus armed forces has more than around 40k soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8756 "2022-09-29T18:50:04Z")
If I were Lukashenko, I’d be seriously worried that mobilized soldiers would take ME out, the Belarusians because Lukashenko is not popular and/or the Russians because Belarus is another part of the historical Russian lands. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8757 "2022-09-29T18:58:49Z")
My favorite piece of trivia today: More Russians have fled to Finland, Georgia, and Kazakhstan (194,000-200,000) than we’re massed at the Ukrainian border in February (190,000). > **[Number of Russians fleeing draft bigger than first invasion force: UK](https://www.businessinsider.com/number-of-russians-fleeing-draft-bigger-1st-invasion-force-uk-2022-9?amp)** > > On February 24, 190,000 Russians invaded Ukraine. An estimated 194,000 Russians have fled to Georgia, Kazakhstan, and Finland alone. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8758 "2022-09-29T19:05:38Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Those Donbas militias might remain more effective under local control than under the ever-changing revolving door generals of the Russian military. My thoughts exactly. The Donbas militias are veteran troops who have been fighting Ukraine on and off for the last 8 years. They probably know what they are doing and have a pretty good idea what works and what doesn’t. If they get officially incorporated into the top down Russian military structure of corruption and incompetence, they will no longer have the ability to act on their own intiative and will basically reduce to being another set of cogs in an largely ineffective machine. > [@Broomstick](#): > > No, Russia does not “have to” take anymore more territory. They didn’t have to take ANY territory. They didn’t have to start this war. Putin and the Kremlin are absolutely doing this entirely of their own volition. To be fair I don’t think that Kedikat was speaking of “have to” as a moral imperative, but as a political necessity. In other words Putin is painting himself into a corner. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8759 "2022-09-29T19:14:41Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I have just signed a decree annexing the entirety of Moscow. > > Sorry, Vlad, but it’s mine now. I saw the votes, 99.999 voted YES! the other .0001 voted dead. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8760 "2022-09-29T19:18:13Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > The Donbas militias are veteran troops who have been fighting Ukraine on and off for the last 8 years. They probably know what they are doing and have a pretty good idea what works and what doesn’t. I’m not sure that’s true. The Donbas militias weren’t engaged in a full-fledged war, to my knowledge; I believe it was a steady, ongoing, low-level conflict, more guerilla warfare. (I may be completely wrong about that.) There’s a different level of strategy and tactics involved in a full-scale war. Just because they were good at insurgency doesn’t mean they’ll be good line troops. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8761 "2022-09-29T19:26:26Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It wasn’t the Ukrainians - they don’t have naval capacity, or a navy. I think Ukraine still has a navy, but I’m not sure of its capacity. According to [this article](https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/royal-navys-hms-shoreham-taking-7066650) from May, The Royal Navy agreed, before the war, to transfer ships to the Ukrainian Navy ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8762 "2022-09-29T19:32:05Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I think Ukraine still has a navy, but I’m not sure of its capacity. > > According to [this article](https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/royal-navys-hms-shoreham-taking-7066650) from May, The Royal Navy agreed, before the war, to transfer ships to the Ukrainian Navy Even if they do have a small rump navy, it would be based in the Black Sea, likely out of Odessa. Such a navy wouldn’t be able to operate in the Baltic. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8763 "2022-09-29T19:34:09Z")
Certainly not without being spotted and commented on at it moved up there. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8764 "2022-09-29T19:38:40Z")
I still bet that they were better than the status quo for the Russian military. As for their being better of guerilla tactics than all out war, that is sort of my point. They would probably more effective as a continuing guerilla force than incorporated into the regular Russian army. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8765 "2022-09-29T19:40:11Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Certainly not without being spotted and commented on at it moved up there. Turkey will not let any belligerent ships pass through the straits. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8766 "2022-09-29T20:12:14Z")
Why does everybody think a navy was necessary to damage those pipelines? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=434) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=436)