# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 441
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8867 "2022-09-30T23:41:43Z")
In a criticism of Russia, Kyrgyzstan has announced that it’s switching from the Cyrillic to the Latin alphabet. [https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/9766/Artykul/3045047,Kyrgyzstan-to-adopt-Latin-alphabet-in-blow-to-‘Russian-order’-report](https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/9766/Artykul/3045047,Kyrgyzstan-to-adopt-Latin-alphabet-in-blow-to-%E2%80%98Russian-order%E2%80%99-report) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8868 "2022-09-30T23:51:52Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The whole point of such submarines is that they buy you lots of time to think. You can ride out the enemy’s first strike and ponder your options, no need for a “Mr. President we need a decision in 10 minutes”. If you survive the first strike. “Mr. President, the nukes will be here in 5 minutes, there’s nothing we can do to get you to safety in time. Do you want to launch a retaliatory strike?” Note that I said nothing about “we need to launch now or we’ll lose them”, that had nothing to do with my point. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8869 "2022-10-01T00:51:25Z")
Apologies if this was posted earlier and I missed it. [Russian conscripts beat up their officer after he tells them ‘you are all cannon fodder’](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-conscripts-beat-up-their-officer-after-he-tells-them-you-are-all-cannon-fodder/ar-AA12ri19?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=253b37b4b3514a4fa0e5ff594d7984e4) Sounds like the kind of commander that gets a grenade rolled into his tent. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8870 "2022-10-01T01:04:38Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > **His legacy will be “We were attacked by the whole West and hence we lost this war”** (and all died) … which from his POV will be a superior solution to “We lost against Ukraine” (and Putin dies in shame) That or, in another grand misstep, he has cemented his legacy in the minds of those Russians deranged enough to believe him (whether that’s almost none, or nearly all) as **the guy who can’t defend the Mother Land**. One more reason why he might “have to go.” ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8871 "2022-10-01T01:11:54Z")
So, if all this new territory is supposedly fully Russian homeland now, has Putin erased the distinction that prevents Ukraine from attacking inside Russia? If he’s forced to accept continued attacks in the Donbas, what’s he going to say if Ukraine starts hitting targets in Russia proper? That somehow that’s different? That the other parts are only kinda sorta Russia? He seems to have boxed himself into a rhetorical corner there. Maybe the U.S. should change the rules of engagement for their weapons. “Hey, if it’s all Russia now, we don’t care where you fire our HIMARS or HAARM missiles. Putin says it’s all the same now.” ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8872 "2022-10-01T01:41:16Z")
Crimea seems like a legitimate target now. It would strategically split Putins forces defending it. Where are the battle lines? What rules of engagement should Ukraine impose on itself? This war is incredibly complicated. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8873 "2022-10-01T01:42:39Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > But even worse for Russia, soldiers in 1945 did not need anywhere near the training and cohesion that a modern attacking force needs. 300,000 men with guns could be effective in WWII after relatively little training. Even in WWII troops needed training and cohesion. The US Army initially had basic training as13 weeks in 1941 but in 1943, they increased the amount of training to 17 weeks as they had found the former to be inadequate. Even going back to WWI, the US found that it took extensive training to produce effective soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8874 "2022-10-01T01:54:20Z")
Ukraine has attacked Crimea multiple times before. The Saky airbase attack was one of the most successful Ukraine attacks of the war. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8875 "2022-10-01T02:42:52Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Another high ranking Russian official gone. Apparently an errant missile fell on his house. What a war. Every time a Russian big shot dies, it’s anyone’s guess which side killed him. Could be Ukraine, could be Russia, who knows? I don’t think this one has been posted yet. Another “suicide.” [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-executive-s-body-found-on-his-balcony-in-latest-suspicious-death/ar-AA12roK8?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ff41d9a036b04718966961436c767288#image=AA12rn35|4](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-executive-s-body-found-on-his-balcony-in-latest-suspicious-death/ar-AA12roK8?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ff41d9a036b04718966961436c767288#image=AA12rn35%7C4) ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8876 "2022-10-01T02:49:53Z")
For those keeping track at home. This site gives the outlines of the newly departed. Oligarchs, Generals, Colonels, etc… Just select the category at the top. Think - Celebrity Death Pool goes to Russia. Click on the card for more information. > **[Russian Oligarchs](https://topcargo200.com/tag/oligarch/)** > > Russian Oligarchs who have died recently ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8877 "2022-10-01T02:57:09Z")
I’m wondering if it’s time to dust off our antique F-117’s and give them to Ukraine in the event Putin goes full-stupid with tactical nukes. If he wants to take his newly declared land then ever bridge connecting it is destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8878 "2022-10-01T03:22:00Z")
It seems the Russian mobilization is trying to get as many people with recent military experience as possible. So a shortened training or retraining time frame might be sufficient. Raw recruits would always need more, to be effective. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8879 "2022-10-01T03:25:24Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So, if all this new territory is supposedly fully Russian homeland now, has Putin erased the distinction that prevents Ukraine from attacking inside Russia? If he’s forced to accept continued attacks in the Donbas, what’s he going to say if Ukraine starts hitting targets in Russia proper? AIUI, Ukraine is already hitting targets inside Russia proper. Just not with Western-supplied weapons. And no NATO country recognizes the annexations, so there will be no problem (at least as far as weapon-suppliers go) with Ukraine continuing to attack Russians in those regions. The thing is, as far as anyone outside Russia is concerned, the annexations have not changed the war at all. > [@smithsb](#): > > Celebrity Death Pool goes to Russia Just call it Russian Oligarch Roulette ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8880 "2022-10-01T03:32:38Z")
I wouldn’t transfer them or any good aircraft into country too soon. Train Ukraine pilots out of country. Keep the aircraft and pilots ready to go. See if you can get ordinance in country secretly. So the aircraft can launch light and get to farthest forward fields with ordinance and fuel ready to load fast. Wait for the opportune offensive moment. Russia might know the planes are close to the Ukraine border. But probably won’t attack them in another country. So always a possible threat. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8881 "2022-10-01T03:33:29Z")
And has be repeatedly noted, their mobilization is ensnaring people with no military experience. Their initial training doesn’t seem to be particularly effective, as seen in combat. Obviously, the longer the length of time between the initial training and being recalled becomes more problematic the longer it is. Overall, Russia hasn’t shown much care about lives of their troops, so I doubt they will be very concerning about training. Something else that will be interesting to see is how they will attempt to use these 300,000 people. In WWII, the US made the mistake of sending in replacement troops as individual replacements, which lead to heavy casualties for the new troops. New soldiers would not have the necessary skills and were often not taught by the veteran members who sometimes wouldn’t even bother learning their names. Taking whole units off the front line and rebuilding them would have been better, but Russia obviously lacks the ability to do this. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8882 "2022-10-01T03:42:49Z")
A giant government operation is not going perfectly? Only in Russia 🙂 If I were trying such a mobilization. I would take active troops from places outside of the war zone and transfer them to Ukraine. Refill those quieter places with new personnel. Of course that does not solve the problem of getting large equipment to the war zone on short notice. Do you have it? Can you move it? And all the supporting material required. I have no idea how long it might take for an effective number of forces to actually present on the field. If anything ramps up big in the very near term. I think it would be in air power? Maybe a sizable increase in artillery? And a bunch of guys with rifles. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8883 "2022-10-01T03:46:11Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > If I were trying such a mobilization. I would take active troops from places outside of the war zone and transfer them to Ukraine. Refill those quieter places with new personnel. That has already been happening from before the mobilization, but it looks like they don’t have enough troops there, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8884 "2022-10-01T03:48:23Z")
That may be. They tried changing to a more volunteer force. May have cut down on total number and number of long haulers. Also a lot of old equipment. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8885 "2022-10-01T09:22:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So, if all this new territory is supposedly fully Russian homeland now, has Putin erased the distinction that prevents Ukraine from attacking inside Russia? If he’s forced to accept continued attacks in the Donbas, what’s he going to say if Ukraine starts hitting targets in Russia proper? That somehow that’s different? That the other parts are only kinda sorta Russia? He seems to have boxed himself into a rhetorical corner there. I think you misunderstand - Putin has declared these four oblasts as fuly part of Russia to justify (internally, in Russia) a declared war to finish what he started with the “special operation”. > [@Kedikat](#): > > It seems the Russian mobilization is trying to get as many people with recent military experience as possible. So a shortened training or retraining time frame might be sufficient. Raw recruits would always need more, to be effective. Pulling reservists into a fight still requires re-training, especially when the time since active service is measure in decades and not years or months. Reports of just a day or two (or less!) of “training” indicate this is not being done. Also, the quality of some of these reservists is pitiful. I mean from a physical health point of view. Drafting people with diabetes is … well, they need their medications and getting supplies of those at an active front is just not feasible as but one example. Some of the older inductees may have problems like heart disease which is also not compatible with active combat. Now, maybe some of that may have been error, but it’s pretty inexcusable. Then again, in this conflict the Russia army has come off looking like a clown car so I’m not surprised. On top of which - Putin has moved from grabbing “reservists” to mobilizing among men of military age, which in Russia is apparently 18-60. Lots of raw recruit not getting anything like adequate training. Also apparently not being supplied with a lot of other necessities. > [@dtilque](#): > > The thing is, as far as anyone outside Russia is concerned, the annexations have not changed the war at all. As I’ve said - it’s not about the outside world, it’s about inside the Russia Federation. It’s about Putin justifying escalation. > [@Kedikat](#): > > If I were trying such a mobilization. I would take active troops from places outside of the war zone and transfer them to Ukraine. Refill those quieter places with new personnel. Yeah, Russia already did some of that - back in February and March when this shitshow began. Apparently they’ve run low on those sorts, hence the most recent draft. > [@Kedikat](#): > > Of course that does not solve the problem of getting large equipment to the war zone on short notice. Do you have it? Can you move it? And all the supporting material required. True. And Russia logistics have been seriously lacking from the beginning of this war. Hell, my employer - _a glorified grocery store_ - has better logistics than the Russia Federation. One serious weakness of Russian logistics has been their heavy dependence on railroads. Railroads are great for moving masses of heavy stuff, except it’s really, really obvious what their route are, what with those shiny steel bits visible on the ground which makes destroying them also easy. Russia also has demonstrated lack of maintenance for their truck fleet as well as a lack of hardened military trucks. Then we get to supporting material. Russia troops have been seen inadequately clothed and lacking food and water, forcing them to loot and steal from the civilians. And that was at the _beginning_ of the war, when Russia had had ample time to deal with supply issues. Except no one, apparently, did. I really have a very low opinion of Russian logistics, which seem largely non-existent. You need to do more than just put warm bodies on the front line, you need to supply them with stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8886 "2022-10-01T10:52:06Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > And that was at the _beginning_ of the war, when Russia had had ample time to deal with supply issues. Except no one, apparently, did. It seems clear they thought this was an irrelevant need. “The fight will be over in 72 hours, our soldiers will grow fat and happy on the treats delivered to them by a grateful population, don’t bother setting up a supply line.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=440) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=442)