# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 444
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8927 "2022-10-02T04:08:27Z")
I am afraid “bodies” will be the correct terminology for these poor conscripts. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8928 "2022-10-02T04:33:37Z")
That seems pretty much correct. Putin does all the usual politician stuff / fluff to justify things. But he also seems to be very stuck on lawyer level legal fact or at least the wording. Cover your ass. Those areas will very soon be ( In Russian Government / legal realm ) Russia. At that moment, a lot of ( Russian ) legal constraints change quite dramatically. But how that translates to personnel, material, actions, on the ground in Ukraine is real fuzzy in timeline, amount, effectiveness, ability. Lately it seems Russia has not had enough in place in some places. And lost them. Do they have enough, now legally allowed, to do it? Seems they may have put themselves in even more of a put up, or shut up position. Fewer or no more excuses for failure. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8929 "2022-10-02T05:11:20Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Intellectually, it seems like if you know a missile can randomly strike where you are, then going about your as normal seems a reasonable choice. Emotionally, I can see where that would be hard to put in practice, and even if you did, it would still be a shitty existence. I can confirm that. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8930 "2022-10-02T06:54:09Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > I’d be scared shitless that a couple of ivans come out of the black panel truck and nobody will ever see you again … I thought that too. That had to be a consulate vehicle, what with the traffic cone and front door parking. > [@hajario](#): > > To be fair, so do Communists. 🙂 Seems to be a common trait with obscenely rich people. Still waiting for my turn, may be awhile. 🙁 > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Or sleeping it off. That’s more likely. The occupants may be on their way to Ukraine as we speak. > [@Al128](#): > > Official page of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine ![🇺🇦] Man, I hope they have the ability to press onward. They really need to take as much territory as they can before those 100,000+ conscripts are moved into place or the weather worsens. This is especially satisfying, coming on the heels of the Great Annexation announcement. I expect to see another report of the death of a high ranking Russian officer under mysterious circumstances. Vlad must be throwing a lot of ketchup against the walls. > [@Alessan](#): > > I can confirm that. Yeah, I imagine you have quite a bit of unwanted experience with that. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8931 "2022-10-02T08:17:39Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Then we get to supporting material. Russia troops have been seen inadequately clothed and lacking food and water, forcing them to loot and steal from the civilians. And that was at the _beginning_ of the war, when Russia had had ample time to deal with supply issues. Except no one, apparently, did. [Mark Galeotti](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Galeotti), an expert on Russia, said that the orders to attack [were a surprise](https://www.salon.com/2022/09/26/putins-doom-expert-mark-galeotti-on-how-a-once-feared-leader-threw-it-all-away/) to the Russian generals. > [@](#): > > Even more important than any of these issues is that the Russian military was not sent to fight the way it trains and prepares to fight. If the world had been as Putin believed it to be, we would probably now be talking about his extraordinary strategic brilliance. It is precisely because Putin believed that Ukraine would be an easy victory that he didn’t share his plans with anyone, including the generals and other officers who would be carrying out the operation. They may have found out a week before the attack, which is nothing like the kind of time you need to properly prepare. They only had supplies for maybe a two-week operation. So, if Galeotti is correct, then even the generals weren’t planning for a war. It blows my mind that they would not have had more detailed discussions before, but earlier in the article, he says that Putin surrounds himself with yes men and people know not to contradict him. What a clusterfuck. OTOH, Galeotti appears to have contacts with various people and it could be a cover story by them to place the blame on Putin. The first casualty of war is the truth, as is attributed to various people. But again, they haven’t done anything to improve most of the logistics since then. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8932 "2022-10-02T08:19:01Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > Man, I hope they have the ability to press onward. They really need to take as much territory as they can before those 100,000+ conscripts are moved into place or the weather worsens. The weather seems to be the bigger concern. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8933 "2022-10-02T12:36:24Z")
nm, nope, oops ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8934 "2022-10-02T12:54:29Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > It blows my mind that they would not have had more detailed discussions before, but earlier in the article, he says that Putin surrounds himself with yes men and people know not to contradict him. What a clusterfuck. > > OTOH, Galeotti appears to have contacts with various people and it could be a cover story by them to place the blame on Putin. The first casualty of war is the truth, as is attributed to various people. Sure, it _could_ be a cover story - but this comports with everything we _know_ happened in the early part of the war. The Russians really did attack with insufficient supplies, and with apparently no plans to even begin to fix that problem. They did it at a time of year in which travel by large armies over open country is notoriously difficult, meaning what little they were able to do to try to fix the problems was even less effective than it might have been otherwise. This whole operation has exactly the flavor you’d expect from a last-minute tossed together kludge carried out by people too afraid to tell their boss his “Brilliant Idea!” is unworkable. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8935 "2022-10-02T13:05:51Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > the orders to attack [were a surprise](https://www.salon.com/2022/09/26/putins-doom-expert-mark-galeotti-on-how-a-once-feared-leader-threw-it-all-away/) to the Russian generals. > > > [@](#): > > > > It is precisely because Putin believed that Ukraine would be an easy victory that he didn’t share his plans with anyone, including the generals and other officers who would be carrying out the operation. They may have found out a week before the attack Now that is truly shocking. Just how much hubris can you have? Apparently Putin’s answer to that question is “yes.” Seriously, though, just imagine Biden calling up the joint chiefs: JB: Okay, boys, we’re invading Canada! JC: WTF?! Why? JB: Nazis. But never mind that, our initial assault will be a week from today, so get to work. Chop chop! JC: _\*heads asplode\*_ ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8936 "2022-10-02T13:11:43Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > This whole operation has exactly the flavor you’d expect from a last-minute tossed together kludge carried out by people too afraid to tell their boss his “Brilliant Idea!” is unworkable. I know, but the only hesitation I have is that they were camped out on the borders for months, weren’t they? I just can’t conceive of military planners not sitting around and drawing up lists of necessary things. The claim is that Putin didn’t tell them they were going to invade, but it’s the military’s job to plan contingencies. This video is reported to be a Russian doctor telling mobilized men to being their own sleeping bags and have their wives and girlfriend sent them tampons and sanitary pads, as well as tourniquets because the army can only provide uniforms and armor. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/SSeSpufDytI/maxresdefault.jpg "Russian recruits told to pack tampons for emergency aid as military supplies run out") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSeSpufDytI) > [@EllisDee](#): > > Now that is truly shocking. Just how much hubris can you have? Apparently Putin’s answer to that question is “yes.” It’s insane. They were claims early on that the Russian intelligence service was also kept in the dark. It’s not the optimal way of winning wars. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8937 "2022-10-02T13:19:10Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > The claim is that Putin didn’t tell them they were going to invade, but it’s the military’s job to plan contingencies. Perhaps. But even in planning for contingencies, there are likely to be certain assumptions made. A contingency plan for the invasion of Ukraine, should conditions warrant? Sure. A contingency plan assuming the invasion must take place at the least opportune time of year, and with only a week’s notice? What kind of idiot would plan for that? I’d sooner set the combination on my luggage to 1-2-3-4-5. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8938 "2022-10-02T13:32:57Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > But even in planning for contingencies, there are likely to be certain assumptions made. A contingency plan for the invasion of Ukraine, should conditions warrant? Sure. A contingency plan assuming the invasion must take place at the least opportune time of year, and with only a week’s notice? What kind of idiot would plan for that? It just speaks of the dysfunction in the Russian system, as their military leaders apparently couldn’t ask what the game plan was. Anyone who has studied military history is now bald from tearing their hair out. Even casual readers know this is not possible. It will be interesting to see how badly this ends for them. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8939 "2022-10-02T15:00:00Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > [Mark Galeotti](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Galeotti), an expert on Russia, said that the orders to attack [were a surprise](https://www.salon.com/2022/09/26/putins-doom-expert-mark-galeotti-on-how-a-once-feared-leader-threw-it-all-away/) to the Russian generals. Thank you for that link. Very informative. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8940 "2022-10-02T15:38:26Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > The weather seems to be the bigger concern. The weather is the biggest advantage for Ukraine. The Russians have to increase their reliance on rail and road which makes it harder for them to defend their lines of support. Taking out a rail bridge is not something easily repaired. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8941 "2022-10-02T16:29:05Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > Still waiting for my turn, may be awhile. I’m working on my second million. I’ve heard it’s so much easier than the first and I’ve given up on that. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8942 "2022-10-02T16:45:45Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > But never mind that, our initial assault will be a week from today, so get to work. Chop chop! Actually, I would be willing to bet that somewhere in the Pentagon, in a little-used room there is a file cabinet with a plan on how to [assault Canada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_color-coded_war_plans#List_of_color_plans), _but_ > Often, junior military officers were given the task of updating each plan to keep them trained and busy (especially in the case of War Plan Crimson, the invasion of Canada). ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8943 "2022-10-02T17:06:49Z")
Yesterday, they were reports of a renewed Ukrainian offensive in Kherson region: > > More developments today: > > > ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8944 "2022-10-02T17:52:05Z")
Early reports which may end up being fog of war BS, but the northern part of the Kherson front might be completely collapsing for the Russians. Dudchany is over 20km behind the established front line. A Ukrainian advance along the Dnipro riverbank could result in another massive encirclement (optimistic speculation on my part) as there are also reports of renewed Ukrainian attacks at their bridgehead over the Imhulets south of Davydiv Brid. > ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8945 "2022-10-02T18:10:20Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > The claim is that Putin didn’t tell them they were going to invade, but it’s the military’s job to plan contingencies. Well, certainly, a _competent_ military. > [@](#): > > … because the army can only provide uniforms and armor. So about those uniforms? [‘Where did they disappear to?’: Russian MP says 1.5 mln military uniforms are missing](https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2022/10/02/where-did-they-disappear-to-russian-local-pm-says-1-5-mln-military-uniforms-are-missing-news) > Russia’s MP for Zabaykalsky region lieutenant general Andrey Gurulev has said that 1.5 million sets of military uniform had gone missing, [reports](https://tayga.info/179331) local outlet Tayga.info. > > “I still don’t understand where 1.5 million sets [of uniform], which had been kept at personnel reception points, ended up. Today, we have either problems with uniforms, or something else happens. All of these things were there, where did they disappear to? No one can explain this to me in any way at all anywhere!” he said. > “We need to ask specific questions: where [did it go], where [is it now], and how did this happen that our drafted men are unable to receive a uniform, etc,” the lieutenant general concluded. I say again, a _competent_ military. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8946 "2022-10-02T18:15:42Z")
“It is too early to talk about the loss of control of units and unorganized withdrawal.” That right there is a text book example of a “too specific denial”. At this point, it’s a near-certainty that a lot of Russian units are bugging out as we speak. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=443) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=445)