# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 445
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8947 "2022-10-02T18:24:10Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > I still don’t understand where 1.5 million sets [of uniform], which had been kept at personnel reception points, ended up. Maybe [here](https://kula-tactical.com/russian-army-uniforms)? Or [here](https://voensklad.com)? Or [here](https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=russian+army+uniform&_sacat=0)? Could be [anywhere](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=russian+army+uniforms+for+sale&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8). ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8948 "2022-10-02T18:29:46Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > So about those uniforms? > > [‘Where did they disappear to?’: Russian MP says 1.5 mln military uniforms are missing](https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2022/10/02/where-did-they-disappear-to-russian-local-pm-says-1-5-mln-military-uniforms-are-missing-news) The answer is, corruption. At every stage of procurement, corrupt profiteering is happening. All the way from the supply contract being awarded to someone who’s got buddies at the MoD with lower quantities of substandard garments being produced and the savings are split between the producer and the MoD authorities who look the other way, to unit quartermasters flogging stuff from their warehouse on eBay and falsifying their inventories, and at every step in between. Probably a large chunk of those 1.5M uniforms never existed except on paper. Most of the rest were sold. Yachts and dachas don’t pay for themselves, and neither do cases of vodka. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8949 "2022-10-02T18:32:57Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > ‘Where did they disappear to?’: Russian MP says 1.5 mln military uniforms are missing It’s a good question. The surplus market would be a good guess but who’s gonna wear Russian military uniform? In the Federation? You’ll be picked up as a deserter. In a neighboring country? Ditto, or simply shot out of hand. Deep in the Brazilian jungle where the only people around are isolated from the world, maybe. I’m reminded of a movie I saw where a journalist in Saigon was wearing a jacket CIA operatives favored because it looked tactical. A VC walked up and shot him in the head with a pistol. Looking at the body a GI commented, “He might as well have been wearing a _Shoot Me_ sign on his back.” ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8950 "2022-10-02T18:33:51Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > The surplus market would be a good guess but who’s gonna wear Russian military uniform? It’s very unlikely they were ever physically made at all. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8951 "2022-10-02T18:37:07Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > The surplus market would be a good guess but who’s gonna wear Russian military uniform? In the Federation? You’ll be picked up as a deserter Russian soldiers from wealthy enough backgrounds to pay for their own equipment when their unit supplies are lacking? Probably would have been better off using the money to bribe the mobilization commisar to get a medical exemption, but if you already signed a military contract based on promises you’d be serving in Kaliningrad you might be trying to make the best of things. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8952 "2022-10-02T18:44:44Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > It’s very unlikely they were ever physically made at all. Fair point. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8953 "2022-10-02T19:16:29Z")
as already mentioned - the past few days the good news came from the northern front (Lyman) … and it seems the next storm for the russians is alredy starting to brew in Kherson… waiting for good news over the next few days - but it seems that things are starting to slide finally on the right side of the Dnepr… . > . > ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8954 "2022-10-02T19:59:21Z")
Putin- “I have drawn a line in the sand. This is Russian Territory and will be defended to the last man!” A short tome later. “Okay, here is another line in the sand.This is Russian Territory and will be defended to the last man!”" It reminds me of Hitler promoting a General to Field Marshal, since German Field Marshals never surrender. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8955 "2022-10-02T20:03:32Z")
another monty pythonesque episode of this war: > . > . here, a bit more geographical context: > ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8956 "2022-10-02T20:34:27Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I’ve heard it’s so much easier than the first and I’ve given up on that. What a brilliant idea! I can’t believe I didn’t think of that. > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Yesterday, they were reports of a renewed Ukrainian offensive in Kherson region: Ukronazis? Is that an actual word used by Russians? That’s hilarious. Man, I hope this Kherson news is accurate. Keeping the pressure up on the Russians now is an excellent move. Keep them moving backwards now, while the weather is cooperating. I really didn’t think Ukraine had the troop strength for this so soon. 🇺🇦 > [@Horatius](#): > > At this point, it’s a near-certainty that a lot of Russian units are bugging out as we speak. I know I would. They have crappy or non existent supplies and incompetent leadership. Once (if) Putin moves in his conscripts, I have a feeling we’ll see a lot of shooting of retreating troops. You know, just to “improve morale” among the troops. They may be better off surrendering than retreating into Russia. > [@Cervaise](#): > > It’s very unlikely they were ever physically made at all. Yep, just like all their other military equipment. It looks like an impressive army on paper, but it probably never existed in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8957 "2022-10-02T20:38:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It reminds me of Hitler promoting a General to Field Marshal, since German Field Marshals never surrender. That was Paulus at [Stalingrad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad). There might have been others. > Hitler issued a tranche of [field promotions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_promotion) to the Sixth Army’s officers. Most notably, he promoted Paulus to the rank of _[Generalfeldmarschall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalfeldmarschall)_. In deciding to promote Paulus, Hitler noted that there was no record of a German or [Prussian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Prussia) field marshal having ever surrendered. The implication was clear: if Paulus surrendered, he would shame himself and would become the highest-ranking German officer ever to be captured. Hitler believed that Paulus would either fight to the last man or commit suicide.[[159]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad#cite_note-FOOTNOTEAdamRuhle2015212Bellamy2007549Shirer1990932-168) > **On the next day** , the southern pocket in Stalingrad collapsed. Soviet forces reached the entrance to the German headquarters in the ruined [GUM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Universal_Store) department store.[[160]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad#cite_note-FOOTNOTEAdamRuhle2015207%E2%80%9308,_212%E2%80%9315-169) When interrogated by the Soviets, Paulus claimed that he had not surrendered. He said that he had been taken by surprise. He denied that he was the commander of the remaining northern pocket in Stalingrad and refused to issue an order in his name for them to surrender. Bolding mine. I wish Putin the same success. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8958 "2022-10-02T20:50:21Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Actually, I would be willing to bet that somewhere in the Pentagon, in a little-used room there is a file cabinet with a plan on how to [assault Canada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_color-coded_war_plans#List_of_color_plans), _but_ > > > Often, junior military officers were given the task of updating each plan to keep them trained and busy (especially in the case of War Plan Crimson, the invasion of Canada). But the invasion plan isn’t secret – they made a whole movie about it … > **[Canadian Bacon (1995) ⭐ 5.9 | Action, Comedy](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109370/)** > > 1h 31m | PG ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8959 "2022-10-02T21:15:45Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > The answer is, corruption. At every stage of procurement, corrupt profiteering is happening. All the way from the supply contract being awarded to someone who’s got buddies at the MoD with lower quantities of substandard garments being produced and the savings are split between the producer and the MoD authorities who look the other way, to unit quartermasters flogging stuff from their warehouse on eBay and falsifying their inventories, and at every step in between. Without a doubt. the only thing I wonder about is, does the official quoted in that story honestly not know about all this, or is he just Shocked, _Shocked!_ to find corruption in Russia? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8960 "2022-10-02T21:20:16Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > > Russian forces requesting urgent air support on social media Is that better or worse than using a payphone to call for artillery support? 😃 > **[Why a US soldier once had to use a payphone to call in artillery support](https://www.businessinsider.com/requesting-artillery-from-a-payphone-2016-5)** > > The US invasion of Grenada was conducted by highly capable units, but they were plagued by some very basic problems. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8961 "2022-10-02T21:24:44Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Is that better or worse than using a payphone to call for artillery support? I was going to ask if he had to shoot a nearby Coca-Cola machine for some loose change, but apparently he used a credit card. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8962 "2022-10-02T21:40:20Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Is that better or worse than using a payphone to call for artillery support? 😃 Also happened in the Falklands War. A British soldier called ahead on a pay phone to a resident in the next town, to ask if the Argies were still there. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8963 "2022-10-02T22:23:28Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Without a doubt. the only thing I wonder about is, does the official quoted in that story honestly not know about all this, or is he just Shocked, _Shocked!_ to find corruption in Russia He’s described as an MP and a lieutenant general. I’m sure he’s aware of how he funded _his_ dacha, and is under no real illusions as to what the story is on these uniforms, but part of the game is that you can’t admit to knowing that corruption is endemic even though everyone knows that it is. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8964 "2022-10-02T22:29:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Putin- “I have drawn a line in the sand. This is Russian Territory and will be defended to the last man!” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/zkzWyOaS8kU/hqdefault.jpg "Cross This Line") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkzWyOaS8kU) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8965 "2022-10-02T22:38:17Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > … in the Falklands War. A British soldier called ahead on a pay phone to a resident in the next town, to ask if the Argies were still there. “Argies”? That is almost as precious as “Ukronazis”. Meanwhile, [paint that target big](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-celebrates-capturing-key-town-putin-ally-mulls-possible-nuclear-response-2022-10-02/) > [@](#): > > Pope Francis on Sunday made [an impassioned appeal](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pope-begs-putin-end-spiral-violence-death-cites-nuclear-threat-2022-10-02/) to Putin to stop “this spiral of violence and death” in Ukraine and also called on Zelenskiy to be open to any “serious peace proposal”. Zelenskiy [said](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/zelenskiy-says-ukraine-applying-nato-membership-2022-09-30/) on Friday … “_We are ready for a dialogue with Russia, but with **another president** of Russia_,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/8966 "2022-10-02T22:42:48Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > part of the game is that you can’t admit to knowing that corruption is endemic even though everyone knows that it is. “I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=444) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=446)