# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 454
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9129 "2022-10-06T15:38:08Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > his is how Russian tourists in Ukraine should behave: The Ukrainian soldiers in the video handled that capture textbook style. Instructions (presumably) how to move were clearly shouted. Each prisoner was searched thoroughly. Weapons were kept trained on the prisoners at all times. Other soldiers maintained overwatch/lookout of the area while this was going on. Their good training shows. I wonder does Ukraine have adequate facilities to house the large numbers of prisoners they’re likely to take once the new Russian mobs start rolling in? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9130 "2022-10-06T15:47:15Z")
> ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9131 "2022-10-06T15:56:32Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > The Ukrainian soldiers in the video handled that capture textbook style. Agreed. I was really impressed by their discipline and professionalism. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9132 "2022-10-06T16:00:10Z")
I was getting a little nervous when the driver didn’t show for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9133 "2022-10-06T16:13:35Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > The Ukrainian soldiers in the video handled that capture textbook style. Maybe too much so. I get a slight staged vibe from it. Talking of staged, there’s speculation that the grievanced mobik video I posted yesterday may have been staged… by Wagner. There appears to be a power struggle going on between Prighozin (owner of Wagner Group) and Kadyrov (Chechen pocket dictator) on one side, versus Shoigu (Minister of Defence) and Lapin (Russian general) on the other. > > > Mark Krutov @kromark > > ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9134 "2022-10-06T16:32:59Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Maybe too much so. I get a slight staged vibe from it. OSINT twitter thinks the BMP surrender video is staged. They think it might be a training video. The Ukrainians don’t have yellow or blue armbands, and nobody’s pointing an ATGM or RPG at the thing as it drives up. And re-watching, I don’t see any Z or V markings on the BMP. At this point most of the Russian vehicles you see are covered in those plus abundant grafitti besides. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9135 "2022-10-06T16:42:31Z")
There’s a small Z-symbol on the other side of the vehicle, visible in this video: > A couple of things that seem a bit suspect to me are the infantry out in the open, exposed, and that the cameraperson seems to show a bit of a lack of caution. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9136 "2022-10-06T17:14:07Z")
Is it just me, or does the idea of encirclements and no-retreat orders seem very WWII Eastern Front-like? As in didn’t both Stalin and Hitler issue those sorts of orders at either end of the war, and commanders were faced with retreating and punishment, or staying, being encircled AND making things worse for the army? ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9137 "2022-10-06T17:15:56Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > very interesting thread on Ru defense positions @ the dam en Nova Khakova and nearby Either I’m going blind or this guy has vision like Superman. Without on the ground confirmation those pictures could be of anything. I saw a lot of aerial surveillance photos when I served and these seem to be useless by themselves. If the Russians are actually digging long trenches like that, they are still living in WWI. They would be slaughtered in those trenches. > [@TokyoBayer](#): > > In the Russian military, perhaps things are just too far gone. Maybe they can’t put in place the necessary processes to obtain realistic information, without which they are doomed. That’s why I wondered just how accurate the intelligence Putin receives is. At this point, it seems that whatever the situation on the ground is, it’s not making it’s way up the ladder. > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > [https://twitter.com/francis\_scarr/status/1578001249236025346](https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1578001249236025346) I don’t get this one. What does it mean? > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > A couple of things that seem a bit suspect to me are the infantry out in the open, exposed, and that the cameraperson seems to show a bit of a lack of caution. Hard to tell if this is real or not. What stands out most to me is the lack of blue armbands etc. on Ukraine troops. Most of the Russian vehicles I’ve seen have very prominent Z or N on them, usually 2 or more. On the other hand, the Ukrainians did have men on perimeter, looking out the way they were traveling. That would be SOP in a situation like this. > [@Cardigan](#): > > I wonder does Ukraine have adequate facilities to house the large numbers of prisoners they’re likely to take once the new Russian mobs start rolling in? I haven’t seen much on this either. How are they handling all the POWs they have now? And how are they going to handle all the extras that are sure to come when the untrained troops start arriving in huge amounts? > [@gracer](#): > > I just saw a video over on TikTok made by a Russian rapper who refused to be sent to kill. He explains, with a quivering voice, that he will not kill and he has no right to pull a trigger in an unjust war. He ends by saying he can choose between prison, becoming canon fodder or deciding for himself the way he dies. > > I followed with a quick Google search, he jumped off a building. He was 27 years old. Poor lad. > > Apparently the first trials of those refusing to sign their mobilisation papers are also starting. I read about this [here](https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/russian-rapper-commits-suicide-to-avoid-being-drafted-in-ukraine-war-122100400355_1.html). He had already did his stint in the military years ago and had also been in a mental institution for a bit. Sounds like he was a pretty well known rap artist in Russia, good streaming numbers for some of his stuff. Another waste of life that can be put on Putin’s list. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9138 "2022-10-06T17:20:18Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > I don’t get this one. What does it mean? Weather forecasters on Russian TV are showing the weather for the areas of Ukraine they’ve “annexed”, because they consider them part of Russia now. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9139 "2022-10-06T17:24:37Z")
FWIW, saw somewhere that an old retired dentist claimed the gold teeth were his, collected from patients of many, many years and stored in that plastic tub. I just can’t recall what web site had the story. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9140 "2022-10-06T17:25:10Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Is it just me, or does the idea of encirclements and no-retreat orders seem very WWII Eastern Front-like? As in didn’t both Stalin and Hitler issue those sorts of orders at either end of the war, and commanders were faced with retreating and punishment, or staying, being encircled AND making things worse for the army? Yeah, I’m reminded of that as well. Both sides must have a genetic memory of the huge encirclements that occurred in the region (e.g. Minsk, Kiev, Stalingrad) during WW2, and are therefore, acutely aware of the danger. I’m hoping the Russian forces in Kherson will be unable to escape to the other side of the river in time and end up surrendering en masse. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9141 "2022-10-06T17:27:58Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Weather forecasters on Russian TV are showing the weather for the areas of Ukraine they’ve “annexed”, because they consider them part of Russia now. Duh! Sorry about that, need to pay more attention. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9142 "2022-10-06T17:49:12Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Given that Russia was on the podium to announce it, I’d assume that they were the ones to point out the math. But I still think that it’s the math that won the day. At some point in the future when nobody wants their oil they can eat sand. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9143 "2022-10-06T17:50:00Z")
I thought that was when they were out of crawdad… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9144 "2022-10-06T17:51:20Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Weather forecasters on Russian TV are showing the weather for the areas of Ukraine they’ve “annexed”, because they consider them part of Russia now. Partly cloudy with a 30% chance of our own ammunition raining down on us. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9145 "2022-10-06T17:53:33Z")
Concerning the Nova Kakhovka dam/bridge, It was taken out by high precision HIMARS about a month ago, but the Russians have been working feverishly for weeks to repair the bridge by dumping tons of gravel into the area where part of the bridge got blown. Due to the design of the bridge, they can’t entirely fix it in this manner, but they’ve been able to effect a partial repair that will allow some smaller vehicles or pedestrians to kind of snake around. Ukraine won’t dare hit the dam as that would be disastrous for the residents of the city of Kherson. I found a video that shows (better than my description) what’s going on with the dam/bridge. [Photo Shows Repair Work at the Nova Kakhovka Bridge - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4eCT8RmwNo) ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9146 "2022-10-06T18:17:34Z")
Once the bridge is in range of the tube artillery, it would seem a viable tactic to target the approaches to the bridge/dam rather than the structure itself. Wait for a concentration of vehicles/personnel to form (you how how panicked people jam the exits) and let loose with the traditional shelling. Moving wrecked vehicles and repairing roadways is much easier than fixing bridges and dams. Save the HIMARS for other targets. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9147 "2022-10-06T18:34:27Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Once the bridge is in range of the tube artillery, it would seem a viable tactic to target the approaches to the bridge/dam rather than the structure itself. An item in the most recently announced transfer from the US might also be of some utility here: > [@smithsb](#): > > 1,000 155mm rounds of Remote Anti-Armor Mine (RAAM) Systems Artillery-deployed minefields on the approaches as a finishing touch. It would be a most thoughtful bonus. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9148 "2022-10-06T18:41:25Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Artillery-deployed minefields on the approaches as a finishing touch. It would be a most thoughtful bonus. They could mine both sides of the bridge approaches in this manner. Unfortunately, those are anti-armor mines, and it appears no tanks will be able to cross. Is there maybe an anti-personnel type mine they could shoot? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=453) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=455)