# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 456
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9169 "2022-10-07T02:56:14Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > possibly because the population density is pretty light until you get down to Mexico City You sweet summer child. I live smack dead in the middle of redneck country. I know the reason is racism, pure and simple. And that is all I have to say about the subject in this thread. I’m wondering how much of the propaganda was personally created by President Huge Brass Balls himself. He was a successful and popular comedian before he was President. Successful comedians know how to think on their feet and they know how to grab someone by the attention and and entertain them while delivering the punchline. I also hope that Sunflower Babushka is still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9170 "2022-10-07T03:07:32Z")
Or has the target audience become less brilliant? Exceptionally larger coverage due to added streams to deliver it to many who never delved much into such things? Not so long ago propaganda was a much more top down, out and done thing, with little mass ability to be propagated outward or personally added to, so easily in so many ways. Of course the Ukraine war is just one aspect of the new methods and effectiveness of new mediums for propaganda. But it is a good targeted example. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9171 "2022-10-07T03:24:26Z")
> [@JaneDoe42](#): > > I know the reason is racism, pure and simple. Perhaps. The only city I can think of without looking at a map is Hermosillo, the capital for Sonora. I would imagine those interested in the area are watching the weather on Univision anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9172 "2022-10-07T11:15:17Z")
> [@JaneDoe42](#): > > I’m wondering how much of the propaganda was personally created by President Huge Brass Balls himself. He was a successful and popular comedian before he was President. Successful comedians know how to think on their feet and they know how to grab someone by the attention and and entertain them while delivering the punchline. Zelenskyy’s comedy also had a lot of political satire in it, I’m sure that helped. From what I understand, his wife was the writer for a lot of the comedy. They met when she was a scriptwriter for [Kvartal 95](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvartal_95_Studio). Maybe she is heading up the propaganda? That is definitely something she could be doing from a “safe and undisclosed location”. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9173 "2022-10-07T13:43:21Z")
As propaganda videos go, that one is a star. Perfect marriage of appropriate music and imagery. I, as a reasonably well educated middle aged American, must be within the target audience. The choice of the song Fly Away coupled with the message of Russians fleeing imparts a sense of hipness (boy, those Ukrainians sure are cool. You’re in favor of coolness, right?). That song, however, is more than 20 years old. The video also depends upon the viewer being familiar with the earlier sunflower babushka theme, and so relies on a certain pop cultural/news awareness. Watching the video with the sound off leaves the viewer with a rather different impression. Try it. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9174 "2022-10-07T14:31:12Z")
I think this is the bridge we talked about earlier? It was damaged a few weeks ago and the Russians were making emergency repairs. It’s been targeted again. Naturally the Russians are making the most of any collateral damage. Hell of a lot of nerve considering the civilian deaths in Zaporizhzhia from missiles and kamikaze drones. Guardian blog > [@](#): > > ## Five killed in Ukrainian shelling of key bridge in Kherson region – reports > > **At least five people were killed and as many injured after Ukrainian forces struck a bus while shelling a strategically important bridge in the Russian-controlled part of Ukraine’s southern Kherson region, Russia’s Tass news agency has reported.** > > Russian-installed authorities in the region said the strike took place as the bus drove civilians across the bridge near the village of Darivka. The claims of the attack have not been independently verified. > [@](#): > > ## Russia targets Zaporizhzhia with ‘kamikaze drones’ for first time > > **Russia has targeted Zaporizhzhia with explosive-packed “kamikaze drones” for the first time, as the death toll from [a missile strike on an apartment building](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/06/ukraine-residential-areas-in-zaporizhzhia-hit-as-russia-targets-cities) in the city rose to 11.** > > The regional governor, **Oleksandr Starukh** , said Iranian-made Shahed-136 drones damaged two infrastructure facilities in the city. He said other missiles also struck the city, injuring one person. > > With its army losing ground to Ukraine’s counteroffensive, Moscow has started to deploy drones to attack Ukrainian targets. According to Ukrainian military officials, “kamikaze drones” are cheaper and less sophisticated than missiles but have proved effective at causing damage to targets on the ground. The Shahed-136 drones are able to remain airborne for several hours and circle over potential targets before being flown into enemy troops, armour or buildings and exploding on impact. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9175 "2022-10-07T15:35:28Z")
Off topic for a moment, but does spelling Zelenskyy with a double y at the end make a difference in pronunciation? I always use the yy because I thought that was what he used, but most English speaking news sources use a single y. > [@aceplace57](#): > > The Shahed-136 drones are able to remain airborne for several hours and circle over potential targets before being flown into enemy troops, armour or buildings and exploding on impact. Problem being, they are often used to target things like apartment buildings. The Russians desperately need armament like that for actual military targets, but they seem to be fine using them to slaughter civilians. It helps the war effort not at all. It’s like they just can’t resist targeting civilians, even if there is no gain in it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9176 "2022-10-07T15:58:29Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > Off topic for a moment, but does spelling Zelenskyy with a double y at the end make a difference in pronunciation? I always use the yy because I thought that was what he used, but most English speaking news sources use a single y. I don’t think it makes a difference in pronunciation for English speakers. There are some difficulties in transliterating words from one writing system to another, in this case from Cyrillic to Latin alphabets. This alone accounts for many of the spelling variations of Eastern European names and words. Many news outlets have a particular standard for such transliterations, some of which would render Зеленський as Zelensky or Zelenski or numerous other variations. To keep their editors from pulling their hair out and their spellcheckers from exploding they will likely continue to use their transliteration protocol when reporting news stories. As these systems may differ between various media outlets you will continue to see many variations on the name. However, the current president of Ukraine does speak and presumably reads English and has written his name in Latin characters as Zelenskyy, which is why I use that spelling. It seems to be the preference of the person whose name it is. For other words, there can be a political/national aspect. Kiev is the Russian spelling of the capital city of Ukraine. Kyiy is the Ukrainian spelling. I believe in that case there is a difference in pronunciation (which may or may not be apparent to English ears) Which one you use can be indicative of which side you take in this conflict. Or it may simply be that you’ve heard one version for nearly all your life and it’s just habit. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9177 "2022-10-07T16:02:51Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Kyiy is the Ukrainian spelling. Hah! Caught you in an error! Thanks for the answer, that’s pretty much what I was thinking it was. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9178 "2022-10-07T16:07:01Z")
My excuse (and I’m sticking too it) is that I do not speak any Slavic/Eastern European languages, much less spell correctly in them. 😉 The usual spelling in English of the Ukrainian capital, as transliterate from the Cyrillic, is **Kyiv** ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9179 "2022-10-07T16:20:23Z")
Lviv was Lemberg when my grandparents left as teens in the 1910s. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9180 "2022-10-07T16:43:23Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > My excuse (and I’m sticking too it) is that I do not speak any Slavic/Eastern European languages, much less spell correctly in them. That’s funny, I use the same excuse! > [@hajario](#): > > Lviv was Lemberg when my grandparents left as teens in the 1910s. One of my grandparents on my mom’s side left there in the late 1800s. Apparently not a good place for Jews back then. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9181 "2022-10-07T16:57:48Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > One of my grandparents on my mom’s side left there in the late 1800s. Apparently not a good place for Jews back then. Apparently it got a lot worse. ☹ None of my family survived the 1940s. It was both of my mother’s parents. We might be cousins. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9182 "2022-10-07T17:02:49Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > high precision HIMARS FWIW, HIMARS is just the smaller, truck-mounted version of the good old M270 MLRS from the 1980s. These days they fire guided missiles (GMLRS or ATACMS), and not so much the old unguided ones. If we were serious, we’d start supplying the Ukrainians with DPICM containing missiles. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9183 "2022-10-07T17:50:17Z")
> [@bump](#): > > If we were serious, we’d start supplying the Ukrainians with DPICM containing missiles. I haven’t seen much news about cluster munitions in general in this fight. There is often a public relations risk to that. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9184 "2022-10-07T18:04:29Z")
Between the PSA’s in NYC for nuclear attacks and the Feds buying up $290 Million dollars worth of the drug Nplate (to treat radiation sickness) it makes you wonder. Is there a specific threat on NYC? Both Russia and Iran are dealing with social unrest. They might be plotting something stupid. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9185 "2022-10-07T18:09:09Z")
**If anyone wishes to discuss this point, please start a new thread.** Trying to prevent another hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9186 "2022-10-07T18:13:38Z")
Denys Davydov said in his daily Ukraine war update yesterday that there would be news (like maybe today) to share about the Zaporizhia front. Anyone heard anything? ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9187 "2022-10-07T18:14:48Z")
> [@bump](#): > > If we were serious, we’d start supplying the Ukrainians with DPICM containing missiles The DPICM rounds had an unacceptably high dud rate. A later version with a more reliable fuze was still bad. The rounds are gone from the system. The current HIMARS/M270 has the precision round with a ~200 lb. unitary warhead. A later shipment has fragmentary warhead with 28,000 ( not a typo) tungsten balls wrapped around an explosive core; ideal for troops in the open or in trenches without substantial overhead cover. Also destroys light vehicles. Supposed to be even more effective than the DPICM round without seeding the battlefield with duds. Also in theater are MLRS rounds with antitank mines. These are parachute deployed from round at altitude. Not a US round. Believed to be from either Norway or Germany. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9188 "2022-10-07T18:31:39Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > A later shipment has fragmentary warhead with 28,000 ( not a typo) tungsten balls wrapped around an explosive core; I have to ask - Why tungsten? Seems like hardened steel balls would work just as well in this instance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=455) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=457)