# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 457
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9189 "2022-10-07T18:40:51Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Why tungsten? Seems like hardened steel balls would work just as well in this instance. Tungsten’s density makes it ideal for maximizing penetration power per a given volume of projectile. Depleted uranium is also used for the same purpose and for the same reason. Both materials are over double the density of steel or iron. > **[Tungsten | Military](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten#Military)** > > Tungsten, usually alloyed with nickel, iron, or cobalt to form heavy alloys, is used in kinetic energy penetrators as an alternative to depleted uranium, in applications where uranium's radioactivity is problematic even in depleted form, or where uranium's additional pyrophoric properties are not desired (for example, in ordinary small arms bullets designed to penetrate body armor). Similarly, tungsten alloys have also been used in shells, grenades, and missiles, to create supersonic shrapnel. Ge... > **[Depleted uranium | Ammunition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium#Ammunition)** > > Most military use of depleted uranium has been as 30 mm ordnance, primarily the 30 mm PGU-14/B armor-piercing incendiary round from the GAU-8 Avenger cannon of the A-10 Thunderbolt II used by the United States Air Force. 25 mm DU rounds have been used in the M242 gun mounted on the U.S. Army's Bradley Fighting Vehicle and the Marine Corps's LAV-25. > The U.S. Marine Corps uses DU in the 25 mm PGU-20 round fired by the GAU-12 Equalizer cannon of the AV-8B Harrier, and also in the 20 mm M197 gun mou... ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9190 "2022-10-07T18:44:15Z")
I don’t believe Denys has any particularly notable inside sources. He’s just an unemployed airline pilot who’s amassed a considerable Youtube following by being informative, relentlessly upbeat, and impossible to dislike. Russian Telegram channels have been talking about Ukrainian forces massing along that sector of the front for an attack in the direction of Melitipol or Mariupol for several weeks now, and while official Ukrainian sources have said nothing about it I would presume that if there are large troop concentrations there the locals have noticed and most any well-informed Ukrainians will be generally aware of it. Couple that with it being an area seemingly obviously ripe for attack and pretty much everyone is expecting a Ukrainian offensive somewhere in the sector. Rybar (popular Russian milblogger) has noted some Ukrainian activity in the region in the past couple days and clearly expects more to come as well. So pretty much every commentator expects a major Ukrainian offensive on that front in the near future. Given the track record of Ukrainian army command, that probably means they’ll start there and then a week later take all of Donetsk instead, or maybe take Sevastapol in a surprise amphibious assault. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9191 "2022-10-07T18:59:46Z")
I saw somewhere the number 182,000 as the number of tungsten balls and thought “That can’t possibly be right”. That round is a gigantic Claymore. I saw a video of tests and the number of balls hitting nearby targets was amazing and, obviously, deadly. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9192 "2022-10-07T19:00:51Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > I don’t believe Denys has any particularly notable inside sources. Like everyone else in the western hemisphere, I too can’t dislike Denys, but it really sounded like he had some sort of insider info on what’s going on. Here’s yesterday’s report. If you go to around 8:12 you can hear what he said. It would be out character for him to say something like that if he didn’t have news to back it up. [Update from Ukraine | Major Ukrainian Attack on Svatove | Ruzzia will lose all supplies in region - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjhsxq_SRPU) ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9193 "2022-10-07T19:09:22Z")
Yeah I had seen that too. My guess is that he knows somebody (or knows somebody who knows somebody) stationed there who said, “something big is going down but can’t talk about it cuz op sec.” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9194 "2022-10-07T19:11:24Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > > [@silenus](#): > > > > Why tungsten? Seems like hardened steel balls would work just as well in this instance. > > Tungsten’s density makes it ideal for maximizing penetration power per a given volume of projectile. Depleted uranium is also used for the same purpose and for the same reason. Both materials are over double the density of steel or iron. I believe tungsten is cheaper than depleted uranium. Also, while neither metal is something you want to ingest, my limited information indicates that tungsten is less chemically toxic to the body and does not give off radiation. Depleted uranium is “depleted” because the more radiologically active isotopes have been removed, but not only does it continue to give off some radiation but while doing so its atoms turn into different atoms for new and different forms of hazard. So, particularly if you plan to live in an area after a war is over, tungsten might be the preferred choice. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9195 "2022-10-07T19:16:19Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > We might be cousins. 🙂 I came thisclose to writing the same thing. Not exactly a metropolis back in the day, and Jews were often segregated anyways. Makes for small, tight knit communities. > [@smithsb](#): > > The DPICM rounds had an unacceptably high dud rate. Yes, they were awful. Even the ones the US still had in storage became a problem after a certain amount of time, kind of a “sell by” date. Last I heard they were being (carefully) dismantled by hand. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9196 "2022-10-07T19:22:35Z")
The Ukrainian high command has had some serious Sun Tzu mojo going on (‘a great general is victorious first, and only then does he enter battle’) since this conflict began. Concerning the whole everyone knows Ukraine is planning an offensive into Zaphorizhia, I could swear there’s some Sun Tzu aphorism like _‘if the enemy knows where the next strike will fall, let the rumor of the attack run for three days before beginning the attack.’_ [paraphrasing]. I wonder if that’s what they’re doing now. ---
**Author:** ![Bonum\_Legatum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bonum_legatum/32/6183_2.png) [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9197 "2022-10-07T19:54:04Z")
Sounds like Rear Admiral Gallery’s statement ascribed to the British (WWII era). About Americans overreacting. To paraphrase: “If we were to attack the Yanks we would make a statement to that effect a week before the actual attack. Then your sailors would be so worn out from being on continual alert that we would readily win.” (RA Gallery noted that was BEFORE the **Prince of Wales** was sunk.) ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9198 "2022-10-07T20:19:21Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Depleted uranium is “depleted” because the more radiologically active isotopes have been removed, but not only does it continue to give off some radiation but while doing so its atoms turn into different atoms for new and different forms of hazard. So, particularly if you plan to live in an area after a war is over, tungsten might be the preferred choice don’t forget about the whole warehousing of (weakly) radioactive material … workplace H&S policies (especially in peace times) … keep lots of that stuff together (b/c I am sure they are highly controlled items) and suddenly you might have radiation levels that are no longer weak … so it might be as trivial as “depleted uranium ordenance comes with a huge **practical** PITA factor associated” Analogy: tritium was phased out as illumination medium for wristwatches in the 1990ies in favor of non-radioactive material, not b/c of consumer concern, but b/c of production concerns (bearded swiss workers that handle 100s of watch-faces and -hands 8hrs a day, mandatory health check-ups and -breaks/pauses, radioactive waste, radioactive AC-filters, radioactive floor cleaning equipment, the whole long tail of “radioactive” ) in short: everything radioactive comes with a huge lateral-cost premium [**former watch-workshops in switzerland are radioactively contaminated**](https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/time-out_radioactive-ex-watchmaking-sites-need-rehab/42255414?utm_campaign=teaser-in-article&utm_medium=display&utm_source=swissinfoch&utm_content=o) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9199 "2022-10-07T20:28:36Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > A later shipment has fragmentary warhead with 28,000 ( not a typo) tungsten balls IIRC, it’s the GMLRS-AW rocket, which has 182,000 tungsten fragments (not necessarily balls) per rocket. Essentially, a giant anti-personnel shotgun blast. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9200 "2022-10-07T20:40:16Z")
under-appreciated tweet: . > . just to contextualize: that airfield is way closer to Moscow than to Kiew!!! . [![](https://i.postimg.cc/C5NVCjVX/image.png) ](https://i.postimg.cc/C5NVCjVX/image.png) . (am I the only one who reads a stern warning into this action??) these are by no means small planes … and IIRC those were kept out of the war (except bombing azovstal) b/c they are russias nuke-delivery-bombers (fwiw its the middle plane) [![](https://c4.wallpaperflare.com/wallpaper/663/929/175/tupolev-tu-160-strategic-bomber-russian-air-force-tupolev-tu-22m3-wallpaper-preview.jpg) ](https://c4.wallpaperflare.com/wallpaper/663/929/175/tupolev-tu-160-strategic-bomber-russian-air-force-tupolev-tu-22m3-wallpaper-preview.jpg) straight out of google-maps. [![](https://i.postimg.cc/V6YyfDTT/image.png) ](https://i.postimg.cc/V6YyfDTT/image.png) ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9201 "2022-10-07T20:51:48Z")
Russia is using images of an Azerbaijani drone shot down in 2020 to “prove” its claim that they shot down the Ukrainian “suicide drone”\* before it struck. That pretty much confirms that it did some real damage. \*Another stupid military oxymoron > ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9202 "2022-10-07T20:52:04Z")
I haven’t seen confirmation of that yet. Hopefully it turns out to be true. It’ll be interesting to see what, if anything, there is as a response. The previous major airfield attack was in Crimea. And while Russia claims it as their own I still don’t think they view it the same as an attack on Russia proper. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9203 "2022-10-07T20:58:50Z")
> **[Russian Electric Vehicle Chargers Hacked, Tell Users ‘PUTIN IS A DICKHEAD’](https://www.vice.com/en/article/akvya5/russian-electric-vehicle-chargers-hacked-tell-users-putin-is-a-dickhead)** > > The chargers no longer work and display a scrolling message reading “Glory to Ukraine / Glory to the heroes” Seems a bit foolish, to disable the chargers and include “death to the enemy” on the display, when “the enemy” is Russians, whom they want to topple Putin. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9204 "2022-10-07T21:01:29Z")
The white aircraft seems to be a [Tu-160 ‘Blackjack’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-160). Is the smaller, grey one an [Su-24 ‘Fencer’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-24)? The [Tu-22 ‘Blinder’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-22) has engines mounted in nacelles. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9205 "2022-10-07T21:07:20Z")
Taking out Tu-22M3 Backfire is almost like knocking out a B-1 Lancer, well done Ukes! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9206 "2022-10-07T21:07:23Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > under-appreciated tweet: > > . > > [https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1578426081564299265?cxt=HHwWgsDQ\_ZCK2ecrAAAAhttps://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1578426081564299265?cxt=HHwWgsDQ\_ZCK2ecrAAAAhttps://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1578426081564299265?cxt=HHwWgsDQ\_ZCK2ecrAAAA](https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1578426081564299265?cxt=HHwWgsDQ_ZCK2ecrAAAAhttps://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1578426081564299265?cxt=HHwWgsDQ_ZCK2ecrAAAAhttps://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1578426081564299265?cxt=HHwWgsDQ_ZCK2ecrAAAA) > > . > just to contextualize: that airfield is way closer to Moscow than to Kiew!!! Has it been confirmed that the drone used was captured Russia ordinance on a return-to-sender mission? Because that would be icing on the cake. Also - supposedly not a Western/NATO drone at all, but an Iranian supplied one? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9207 "2022-10-07T21:14:09Z")
In some ways, it feels like an escalation. At least in the U. S. Air Force, some bombers are designated primarily for the strategic bombing mission. An attack on those would be considered an attempt to degrade the US’s ability to launch a major nuclear attack, similar to sinking a ballistic missile submarine, and risks a “use-it-or-lose-it” launch response. So, how many Blackjack or Backfire bombers can the Russians lose before they feel like they have no choice but to use them in their nuclear attack mission? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9208 "2022-10-07T21:15:43Z")
The head of the Kaluga region confirmed that a drone hit the airfield and that there was an explosion. According to him, the airfield infrastructure and equipment were not damaged, and there were no casualties (although a statement by a Russian official obviously has no factual value). > **[В Калужской области на военном аэродроме произошел взрыв от падения дрона -...](https://www.bbc.com/russian/news-63169470)** > > Глава Калужской области Владислав Шапша сообщил, что на территории военного аэродрома упал беспилотник, после чего произошел взрыв. Из его слов следует, что дрон, предположительно, прилетел со стороны украинской границы. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=456) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=458)