# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 465
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9349 "2022-10-08T20:40:44Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > If it was a boat bomb, why blow road instead of the rail? Extra height makes it unlikely to be effective? Targeting error? Yep, the more distance there is between the explosive and the target, the less effective it is. This is why [the 1993 bombing of the World Trade center didn’t do as much damage as they wanted](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing#Attack), they couldn’t get it close enough to the structural elements of the building. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9350 "2022-10-08T20:53:00Z")
Does this photo disprove boat/explosion from underneath theory? (lack of scorch marks, damage) > ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9351 "2022-10-08T20:59:42Z")
Wouldn’t the most damaged part be underwater? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9352 "2022-10-08T21:07:27Z")
That inspection walkway under the road deck sure looks looks like something messed it up. Pressure wave from a blast? But yeah, the part that actually detached from the bridge is underwater, so we can’t see the exact site. Speclatively, It looks like the concrete piling where the road bed separated may be scorched (compare to the pilings on the left), and where the roadbed enters the water there is a lot of black material around the hole in the roadbed and the underside structure around it. Finally, the concrete in the foreground looks like it’s been hit with shrapnel. All of that could have other explanations, though. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9353 "2022-10-08T21:17:54Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > All of that could have other explanations, though. Perhaps secondary explosions from the tankers. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9354 "2022-10-08T21:50:21Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Thermobaric warhead, perhaps. That might explain the initial flash at altitude. You would have seen a fuel dispersal event prior to detonation. > **[Thermobaric weapon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon)** > > A thermobaric weapon, also called an aerosol bomb, or a vacuum bomb, is a type of explosive munitions that work by dispersing an aerosol cloud of gas, liquid or powdered explosive. Thermobaric weapons are almost 100% fuel and as a result are significantly more energetic than conventional explosives of equal weight. The fuel is often elemental.\[clarification needed\] Many types of thermobaric weapons can be fitted to hand-held launchers, and can also be launched from airplanes The term thermoba... ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9355 "2022-10-08T21:55:24Z")
Okay, I yake back the ‘under bridge’ theory. In the photo @Walken_After_Midnight posted, you can clearly see the bridge deck is heavily scorched. It’s just not visible from the ‘under deck’ photo. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9356 "2022-10-08T23:14:45Z")
It’s unfortunate the train bridge wasn’t more severely damaged. I think the Russians have figured out what happened and they’ll have defenses against a similar attack. At least they got a section of the road down. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9357 "2022-10-08T23:33:28Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I think the Russians have figured out what happened and they’ll have defenses against a similar attack. Maybe. Some of the comments on the twitter feeds of the Ukrainian war reporters have some pretty bizarre theories. Obviously it’s speculation, but the guess is that this was done by Wagner and / or the Kadyrovites to put pressure on Putin to purge Shoigu and the top brass of the regular Russian forces. The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense twitter feed suggests that Russians of one sort or another are responsible for the attack. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9358 "2022-10-08T23:37:35Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Elite Russian police units entering central Moscow. Members of the Russian military are reportedly being arrested. The source is Ukrainian intelligence. > > [Intelligence announces numerous arrests of military personnel in Moscow](https://www.yahoo.com/news/intelligence-announces-numerous-arrests-military-144705319.html) It seems to be really, really hard to learn from history. Vlad is making the same mistake, following the same pattern, and despite what looked like promising early progress, like that other guy, he does not realize that ultimately it is just not possible to be victorious on the Russian Front. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9359 "2022-10-08T23:38:09Z")
Hmm, a false flag that hurts the military and gives Russia a excuse to retaliate against Ukraine . Sounds like something tbe Wagner group would do. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9360 "2022-10-08T23:38:13Z")
This article seems to confirm the 182,000 balls in one of the new HIMARS warheads. There is also some video of testing. It looks pretty damn brutal. > **[New Types Of Ammunition Make Ukraine’s HIMARS Far Deadlier (Updated)](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2022/10/05/new-types-of-ammunition-make-ukraines-himars-far-deadlier/?sh=5ca2f27e6dbc)** > > Images from Ukraine indicate the U.S.-supplied HIMARS is receiving new types of ammunition which take it to a different level of lethality against both personnel and vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9361 "2022-10-08T23:49:46Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Maybe. Some of the comments on the twitter feeds of the Ukrainian war reporters have some pretty bizarre theories. Obviously it’s speculation, but the guess is that this was done by Wagner and / or the Kadyrovites to put pressure on Putin to purge Shoigu and the top brass of the regular Russian forces. The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense twitter feed suggests that Russians of one sort or another are responsible for the attack. one reason Putin will not axe Shoigu yet is - he is being built up as the main scapegoat (to deflect blame away from P. ) … but if Shoigu falls out of a window today, who will be responsible for next week’s (and ongoing) shitshow? … so there is this weird scenario that Putin cannot kill the “guilty” guy, as ongoing screwups will show that Shogi-bear was not the culprit. > [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s unfortunate the train bridge wasn’t more severely damaged. > > I think the Russians have figured out what happened and they’ll have defenses against a similar attack. > > At least they got a section of the road down. quite possible - but that requires additional resources that will be sypohned away from the war effort … so the more bridges/airfields/powerstations the Ukr. attack, the thinner the Ru. will have to spread themselves. . also: > I am no expert on that stuff, but doesnt some serious assessment of that structure take days/weeks? … any firfighter here with experiences concerning structural heat damage? I am aware that those bridges are “overdesigned” - but I’d like to know (or hear a guess) how much weaker the structure is now (compared to yesterday’s 100%) ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9362 "2022-10-09T00:19:09Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Hmm, a false flag that hurts the military and gives Russia a excuse to retaliate against Ukraine . > > Sounds like something tbe Wagner group would do. > [@Al128](#): > > one reason Putin will not axe Shoigu yet is - he is being built up as the main scapegoat (to deflect blame away from P. ) > > … but if Shoigu falls out of a window today, **who will be responsible for next week’s (and ongoing) shitshow?** … so there is this weird scenario that Putin cannot kill the “guilty” guy, as ongoing screwups will show that Shogi-bear was not the culprit. The hypothesis is that Kadyrov and Prigozhin seem to be of the belief that if only they were in charge of the whole show that there wouldn’t be any more screw ups or shitshows. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9363 "2022-10-09T00:56:14Z")
Whether they mean this or not, the constatant harping on particular generals assumes that the Russian military is fundamentally competent, just badly led. Based on all we’ve seen in six months, that’ll just not true, in my armchair opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9364 "2022-10-09T01:21:33Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > The hypothesis is that Kadyrov and Prigozhin seem to be of the belief that if only they were in charge of the whole show that there wouldn’t be any more screw ups or shitshows. make both of them bosses of the war (eastern and southern front) … w/out access to nukes … and pretty soon both will be floating face-down in the Dniepr (figuratively speaking) rinse-repeat … this way Putin might be able to get rid of any “new leadership” in russia > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Whether they mean this or not, the constatant harping on particular generals assumes that the Russian military is fundamentally competent, just badly led. Based on all we’ve seen in six months, that’ll just not true, in my armchair opinion. sports analogy: if a football team is royally screwed, the only way out is changing the coach … you cant really change/swap the whole team of 20+ players. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9365 "2022-10-09T01:29:46Z")
The aerial view shows the bridge is broken in 2. So whatever did it blew it completely apart. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9366 "2022-10-09T03:00:31Z")
I think it’s important to emphasize again that this was Putin’s pet bridge project and Ukraine severely damaged it on his birthday. It’s a huge psychological blow to his image. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9367 "2022-10-09T03:08:26Z")
It appears no section of the road deck was completely severed itself by blast effect. What likely happened is the section where the blast occurred deformed downward from the force. This likely pulled the supports to the east and west to cant inward. So at least 3 sections of the road deck were under enormous stress. It appears the connectors for the road deck failed at multiple points. It would be somewhat random which end will fail first. But then you also have the rebound energy slamming back on the connectors that did not initially shear breaking more connectors. Explains the somewhat random falling of deck sections. There may be large cracks in the concrete of the supports now, below the surface. Could drastically shorten the lifespan of that section of the bridge. But may be good enough for now. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9368 "2022-10-09T03:14:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I think it’s important to emphasize again that this was Putin’s pet bridge project and Ukraine severely damaged it on his birthday. It’s a huge psychological blow to his image. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Mr1F3pSFO_0/maxresdefault.jpg "The Volga Birthday Dirge") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr1F3pSFO_0) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=464) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=466)