# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/941 "2022-03-03T13:35:25Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > Ukraine is offering Russian soldiers 5 million rubles if they surrender and say the code word “million”. That offer is getting cheaper for Ukraine by the day. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/942 "2022-03-03T13:37:03Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I don’t get the sense the Russians have been all that motivated by the leadership of the top brass. Pro Tip: You can’t be executed for not following orders if the people who give the orders are all dead. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/943 "2022-03-03T13:37:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That’s not true. They can destroy Ukraine, but they cannot take it because they have no way of holding it. This is why the Soviet Union broke apart in the first place. They knew all along they couldn’t hold all those countries if they took to the streets. It was always a VERY expensive house of cards. Taking something and holding it are two very different things. See Gulf War II. We also don’t know what, exactly, Putin’s goals are wrt what he will accept. He may still be thinking that a military victory is possible whereby he is able to degrade or destroy Ukraine’s military in the field and/or take out their government and install a puppet in their place. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/944 "2022-03-03T13:38:26Z")
Update on the Twitter reports: Christopher David, a.k.a. “Captain Portland”, says he has applied to go over to Ukraine but that > their vetting is super backlogged due to an overwhelming response and that > they are so overwhelmed with applications right now that I have no idea when I’ll hear back. > > There are so many incredibly qualified folks who have applied. That sounds fairly encouraging. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/945 "2022-03-03T13:38:36Z")
> [@XT](#): > > He may still be thinking that a military victory is possible whereby he is able to degrade or destroy Ukraine’s military in the field and/or take out their government and install a puppet in their place. Putin has several possible ways of declaring victory. If things go VERY south, he could negotiate Ukraine pulling its armed forces out of Donbass and call that a win. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/946 "2022-03-03T13:40:15Z")
Ironically, Putin seems to be using up a lot of his own equipment and men. Ukrainians are using up their supplies but getting lot of additional stuff sent in to replace. In the end, it might be the Russian Army that takes the bigger hit, especially in morale. Of course no matter what else happens, the Ukrainians are taking the biggest hit. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/947 "2022-03-03T13:44:22Z")
Over the next week we will see if Russia can take Kyiv or blockade it, and how Ukraine’s resistance to that event goes, and how the world reacts. Ukraine would still retain a huge swath of territory and could continue fighting, but will they? Will Zelenskyy relocate or go down fighting in Kyiv and what would that do to their leadership? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/948 "2022-03-03T13:46:47Z")
They (and the World) will be better off if Zelenskyy continues the fight if and when Kyiv falls. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/949 "2022-03-03T13:51:07Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Putin has several possible ways of declaring victory. If things go VERY south, he could negotiate Ukraine pulling its armed forces out of Donbass and call that a win. Definitely. And right now he can still hope for more territory won on the battlefield. I would say there is a good possibility that Ukraine in some form and with its current government can survive this, but at the same time, I would guess that, unless Russia (or Putin) suffers a serious downturn that Ukraine will come out of this will less territory than it started with…again. And this time they may need to negotiate a way that territory for peace terms. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/950 "2022-03-03T13:53:38Z")
In theory, Zelensky could move from safe house to safe house (he has an entire country to move around in after all) indefinitely. He also has the support of everyone in-country. I think that he will be killed or captured only in the event of extreme bad luck or if he ends up being exposed by a Ukrainian pro-Russian quisling. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/951 "2022-03-03T13:54:05Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Over the next week we will see if Russia can take Kyiv or blockade it, and how Ukraine’s resistance to that event goes, and how the world reacts. Ukraine would still retain a huge swath of territory and could continue fighting, but will they? Will Zelenskyy relocate or go down fighting in Kyiv and what would that do to their leadership? I think so. They have to be making contingency plans for getting their forces out of the east and setting up more defensible positions in the west, using the river as a defensive terrain obstacle. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/952 "2022-03-03T13:55:38Z")
At this point I strongly believe that the death of Zelensky would galvanize resistance, and he would become a martyr and rallying cry. The loss of Kiev, God forbid, would not at all be the end of Ukrainian defense. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/953 "2022-03-03T14:01:31Z")
It would depend on how their succession plan works, as well as whether the majority of the government is either already out of the area and prepared to take over in Ukrainian territory further west or where ever they are planning to move to be more secure. It will also hinge on whether they still have a coherent military force left. I think there is a good chance on both of these, especially if they have been making plans and preparations to do this. From what we’ve seen so far, it would be very difficult for Russia to pursue Ukraine over the Dnieper and into western Ukraine without some serious build-up. That could and probably would take weeks if not months. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/954 "2022-03-03T14:04:12Z")
“You are [Lobby Lud](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobby_Lud) and I claim my five million rubles!” ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/955 "2022-03-03T14:20:17Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Ukraine will come out of this will less territory than it started with…again. But wouldn’t that just let Putin regroup, re-arm and launch a better-prepared invasion in a year or two? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/956 "2022-03-03T14:24:58Z")
Certainly. That was probably Putin’s plan if he couldn’t take all of Ukraine in one bite this year. That or to depose the current government and put in a puppet for whatever territory Russia didn’t directly annex. I’m not sure what Ukraine could do about it if Russia is able to take most of the major cities in the east as well as the capital. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/957 "2022-03-03T14:27:12Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > But wouldn’t that just let Putin regroup, re-arm and launch a better-prepared invasion If the sanctions aren’t lifted, I really don’t know how he can do that. The longer this goes on the less effective his armed forces become and the less support he’ll have at home. Time isn’t on Putin’s side. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/958 "2022-03-03T14:30:16Z")
That’s what I’m thinking, too. If I’m Ukraine, I say no terms that include any new territory, and give Crimea back while you’re at it. (I know – easy for me to say from the comfort and security of the US.) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/959 "2022-03-03T14:30:44Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That is a war crime and I hope it’s not true. I can not in any way condone or approve of that tactic, on the other hand, I don’t expect people fighting for their very existence to be saints, either. Again, that is in no way condoning or approving of the action, I just understand why such things would happen in war. Yes, it would be a war crime. The whole invasion is a war crime. Very bad things happen in war, that’s why they’re best avoided. Unfortunately, we now have war. Atrocities are occurring and by the end everyone will have blood on their hands because that’s what happens in war. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/960 "2022-03-03T14:35:25Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Pro Tip: You can’t be executed for not following orders if the people who give the orders are all dead. They’ve run into this [before](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4kQvkvGi9M). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=49)