# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 484
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9752 "2022-10-16T03:52:51Z")
Sorry about replying to that, thank you for moving it off to another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9753 "2022-10-16T04:27:51Z")
Girkin news: > > > > > Serhiy Hayday @serhey\_hayday > > > Serhii Sternenko ✙ @sternenko > > ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9754 "2022-10-16T12:38:27Z")
> > > > . > The **Kh-47M2 Kinzhal** (in [Russian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Language): Х-47М2 Кинжал, “[dagger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khanjali)”, NATO reporting name **Killjoy** ) is a Russian nuclear-capable [hypersonic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersonic_weapon) [aero-ballistic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-launched_ballistic_missile) [air-to-surface](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-to-surface_missile) [missile](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile).[[10]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-47M2_Kinzhal#cite_note-10)[[11]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-47M2_Kinzhal#cite_note-11) It has a claimed range of more than 2,000 km (1,200 mi), [Mach](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_number) 12 speed (3.4 km/s, 2.5 mi/s), and an ability to perform evasive maneuvers at every stage of its flight. It can carry both conventional and nuclear warheads[[12]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-47M2_Kinzhal#cite_note-12) and can be launched from [Tu-22M3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-22M#Variants) bombers or [MiG-31K](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-31) interceptors. It has been deployed at airbases in Russia’s [Southern Military District](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Military_District) and [Western Military District](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Military_District).[[13]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-47M2_Kinzhal#cite_note-13)[[14]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-47M2_Kinzhal#cite_note-14) . ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9755 "2022-10-16T14:24:33Z")
“illegally privatized” When you have so much corruption, you need a formal term for it… ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9756 "2022-10-16T15:39:20Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > you need a formal term for it… “Purloined” ? ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9757 "2022-10-16T15:39:44Z")
I am wondering if the Ukr. stunt on the Belgorod airport was a not so subliminal message to Lukachenko? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9758 "2022-10-16T15:51:20Z")
Russian troops are now arriving in Belarus in order to “protect the border” with Ukraine. > > ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9759 "2022-10-16T17:21:50Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > Russia is so big, both in geography and population, that it would take a world war for it to be conquered. More the area than the population, I think. According to [Worldometers](https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/russia-population/), the Russian population is about 146,077,237, and that the median age is close to 40. Of course, they also say this is the 9th largest population in the world, but for some reason I thought it had a much larger population than that. Probably since their major war strategy is apparently to overwhelm with number of people rather than ability or capabilities. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9760 "2022-10-16T17:47:14Z")
USSR had a much larger population, but lots of those people left in the breakup of USSR and creation of new countries. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9761 "2022-10-16T17:58:29Z")
Yeah, the USSR had 50 million more people than the US in it’s final days. About the same number of people Russia would gain if it reacquired the entirety of Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9762 "2022-10-16T19:36:14Z")
Ukranian conductor refuses to participate in a concert in Kherson, which was intended to show how the Russians have restored it to a peaceful, oh so cultural town, so the [Russians murder him](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/16/russian-troops-kill-ukrainian-musician-yuriy-kerpatenko-for-refusing-role-in-kherson-concert). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9763 "2022-10-16T22:17:05Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Ukranian conductor refuses to participate in a concert in Kherson, which was intended to show how the Russians have restored it to a peaceful, oh so cultural town, so the [Russians murder him](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/16/russian-troops-kill-ukrainian-musician-yuriy-kerpatenko-for-refusing-role-in-kherson-concert). So their public relations effort consists of “we’re the nicest invading force in the world and we will kill anybody who disagrees”. We know it’s not a well kept secret among the military regarding how badly they’ve been beaten b ack. Creating a martyr isn’t going to bode well for them. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2022, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9764 "2022-10-17T01:41:19Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > It seems obvious that Ukraine intelligence services created and conducted the operation. The driver seems to have been unaware. A fortuitous string of drop off and pickup of loads that brings a random vehicle ever closer to the target seems a good plan. Any one of the pickups could have been the bomb. You are describing a plan with a LOT of points of possible failure, without any obvious benefit to it. That is not the hallmark of a smart plan. > [@Morgyn](#): > > Probably since their major war strategy is apparently to overwhelm with number of people rather than ability or capabilities. The extent to which this is true is really greatly exaggerated. It’s certainly been sort of true in Russia’s victories against very small, wildly outnumbered neighbors - but that’s always true of big imperial powers. If you think of Russia’s two great victories against Napoleonic France and Nazi Germany, what they traded away to achieve success was SPACE. Both Napoleon and Hitler were defeated largely by the inability to successfully take and hold that much ground, thus stretching them out. Napoleon’s Grande Armee was just exhausted out of effectiveness. The USSR’s great victories against Hitler were, for the most part, not human wave type attacks - that’s a misconception. Their worst mass casualties were early in the war in battles they LOST. Their military fortunes reversed when they started fighting better and inflicting severe losses, and tended to be associated with highly successful campaigns of strategic deception and surprise. The Stalingrad encirclement and the Bagration offensive were total surprises that inflicted monstrous casualties on Germany. They were brilliantly executed plans using excellent weaponry, backed up with ample support and logistics, and led by smart generals. If Russia tries to defeat Ukraine with sheer numbers of shit troops, they will _absolutely_ lose the war. (Or they could nuke Ukraine, in which case, everyone will lose the war.) Ukraine is smaller, but they 're not that much smaller: 1. The total ratio in population is about 3-1, which isn’t that humongous. It’s not like Russia beating up on Chechnya. 2. Ukraine’s ability to equip and supply its formations is, obviously, vastly out of proportion to its actual size and economy, since the West is pumping in aid, and 3. Ukraine is fighting on internal lines of supply, which Russia is being forced to fight along an odd, extended front that kind of curves around from Crimea to Kharkiv. Ukraine is a big country, and even for a large army like Russia’s, fighting through that much space is hard. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2022, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9765 "2022-10-17T02:59:25Z")
ISW wrote an article about Ukraine regaining territory and establishing defensible lines. ISW believes any ceasefire will be temporary and Russia will attack Ukraine again. That makes establishing defensible lines before negotiations more critical. It’s interesting ISW is doing this analysis now? Do they expect negotiations in the near future? > **[Institute for the Study of War](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-october-16)** > > This campaign assessment special edition focuses on the specific parts of Ukrainian territory currently under Russian occupation that are important for the long-term viability of an independent Ukraine. Ukrainian forces are currently conducting a ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2022, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9766 "2022-10-17T03:15:19Z")
instead of trying to shoot down Russian planes carrying missiles I think Ukraine should go after them on the ground with special forces or stealth drones… ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2022, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9767 "2022-10-17T04:05:58Z")
Russian ghost tank in death spiral. > ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2022, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9768 "2022-10-17T11:54:49Z")
> ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2022, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9769 "2022-10-17T12:04:48Z")
It’s just too awful. I hate Russia so much. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2022, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9770 "2022-10-17T12:28:18Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s interesting ISW is doing this analysis now? Do they expect negotiations in the near future? That is interesting. Negotiations between the two sides sound like they’d be light years apart as both sides are publicly taking a maximalist diplomatic approach (ie. annexing Ukr. territory/demanding total withdrawal and a return to 2013 borders.). On the other hand, we’ve seen intelligence reports about how both sides are running low on weapons. I get the impression the Ukrainian counteroffensive (at least in the northeast) appears to have culminated. After Kherson is retaken, it’s not impossible a temporary ceasefire could take place as both sides seek to rearm and regroup. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2022, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9771 "2022-10-17T12:35:37Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > I get the impression the Ukrainian counteroffensive (at least in the northeast) appears to have culminated. After Kherson is retaken, it’s not impossible a temporary ceasefire could take place as both sides seek to rearm and regroup. Any ceasefire would only benefit Russia. Hence, there’s no chance of one happening. Russia is retreating on every front, swiftly or slowly. Ukraine is being constantly supplied with new materiel, Russia is scraping the bottom of the barrel. This ceasefire talk is just more Russian no-content blather. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=483) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=485)