# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 489
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9852 "2022-10-19T03:46:39Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Did you mean energizing? Yeah, I think I dictated that and didn’t catch/correct it. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9853 "2022-10-19T04:31:03Z")
Russia’s foreign secretary says there’s no point in Russian diplomats holding posts in Western countries. > **[‘You Can’t Force Love’: Russian Diplomats Told to Kiss the West Goodbye](https://www.thedailybeast.com/kremlin-foreign-minister-sergei-lavrov-tells-russian-diplomats-to-bid-farewell-to-west)** > > In a bizarre speech, Putin’s foreign minister said there is no longer any “point nor desire” for Russian diplomats to hold posts in western countries, citing “inhumane” treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9854 "2022-10-19T04:37:20Z")
Fine. Close every embassy. Remove Russia from the UN. Toss them out of the World Trade Organization. Biff them out of international banking. Treat them as the pariah terrorist nation they aspire to be. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9855 "2022-10-19T04:44:45Z")
Did a quick rough calculation. Millions of killowatts tripped me up a bit. But it might take 3055 of these worlds biggest to make up what has been lost? Of course Ukraine will be able to restore quite a bit on it’s own and with help. Seems a lot of the targets are not the actual generation equipment but the transformer sections adjacent to the generators. These are vital, expensive items. Can be in short supply with long lead times. These transformers are weak points in a lot of our power systems. An event that takes out a lot of them can have long term devastating effect. Even if the generators are still functional. > **[World's Largest Medium-speed, Four-stroke Diesel Power Plant Delivered to OEPC...](https://global.kawasaki.com/en/corp/newsroom/news/detail/20110801_1.html)** > > This page is introducing the information about Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Ltd. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9856 "2022-10-19T05:32:22Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Russia’s foreign secretary says there’s no point in Russian diplomats holding posts in Western countries. I’m surprised by this move. About half the Russian diplomatic service are spies† and they’re removing them from the West? Does not make sense. Sudden thought: perhaps it’s really a cost-saving move, but they’re putting the best face on it. †Of course Russian diplomats are not unique in being spies, except possibly in the percentage who are. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9857 "2022-10-19T05:53:39Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > Seems a lot of the targets are not the actual generation equipment but the transformer sections adjacent to the generators. These are vital, expensive items. Can be in short supply with long lead times. These transformers are weak points in a lot of our power systems. An event that takes out a lot of them can have long term devastating effect. Even if the generators are still functional. The equipment probably dates back to the Soviet Union and not drop in compatible with EU equipment. We have several electrical systems in the US. Single phase and 3 phase. A friend has a commercial milling machine that requires 3 phase. He can’t use it at his home shop. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9858 "2022-10-19T08:18:25Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Is this an M30A1 rocket with Alternative Warhead (AW), with the 182,000 pre-formed tungsten fragments for area effects? You’ll put your eye out, kid. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9859 "2022-10-19T11:57:52Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I’m surprised by this move. About half the Russian diplomatic service are spies† and they’re removing them from the West? Does not make sense. It does make sense, if they’re preparing for war with the West, nuclear or conventional. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9860 "2022-10-19T12:05:48Z")
My understanding is that there is no signal to jam. These suicide drones are not controlled remotely but are more like small, slow cruise missiles - fire and forget. If they count on GPS and that can be blocked or interfered with, that’s a different story. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9861 "2022-10-19T12:08:27Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I’m surprised by this move. About half the Russian diplomatic service are spies† and they’re removing them from the West? Does not make sense. Maybe they’re removing the half who _ **aren’t** _ spies. 🕵️‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9862 "2022-10-19T12:13:45Z")
On what route are the civilians being evacuated? Walking over Antonivsky bridge? Pontoon bridges? Ferry? If Russia concedes Kherson will the military don civilian clothes and join the non-combatants? Could this already be happening with actual civilians being left behind? ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9863 "2022-10-19T12:19:15Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Sudden thought: perhaps it’s really a cost-saving move, but they’re putting the best face on it. The same thought occurred to me as well. How many more months of capital reserves does Russia still possess to allow them to still operate a functional economy while at the same time waging an optional war? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9864 "2022-10-19T12:20:07Z")
I think the evacuation is happening by boats/ships. From a Ukrainian: > ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9865 "2022-10-19T13:34:13Z")
I assumed the officials already had martial law in occupied cities? There’s soldiers on the streets and FSB investigating and interrogating people. Would this change much for civilians living in occupied Russian territory? Guardian feed > [@](#): > > **Vladimir Putin has declared martial law in the four provinces of [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) where Russia controls territory after Russian officials warned of a looming Ukrainian assault on the key southern city of Kherson.** > > “We are working on solving very complex, large-scale tasks to ensure a reliable future for [Russia](https://www.theguardian.com/world/russia), the future of our people,” the Russian president said in televised remarks to members of his security council. > > The law, published on the Kremlin website, gives far far-reaching emergency powers to the Russian-installed heads of Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson provinces, which [Russia](https://www.theguardian.com/world/russia) recently proclaimed as annexed after sham referendums. > > The Kremlin decree also puts Russia on a stronger economic war-footing. Putin ordered an “economic mobilisation” in eight provinces bordering [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine), including Crimea, which Russia ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9866 "2022-10-19T14:22:44Z")
The future of warfare? I’m not sure how effective it would be, due to recoil. > > ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9867 "2022-10-19T14:29:36Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > If they leave, they will surely only be allowed to go south to Russian-held territory. They’re apparently being evacuated to Russia itself: > **[Putin orders martial law in occupied Ukrainian areas as Kyiv's forces gain...](https://www.npr.org/2022/10/19/1129853677/an-occupied-region-of-ukraine-is-evacuating-residents-to-russia)** > > The move signals Russia's growing frustration over Ukrainian advances in areas the Kremlin claimed to annex. It came hours after Kremlin-appointed officials ordered civilians to evacuate Kherson. Not entirely clear from the story, but the impression I got is that, at least at this point, the evacuations are at least voluntary. Would be more voluntary if they got a choice as to which direction to head in, of course. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9868 "2022-10-19T15:09:01Z")
Maybe these are known Russian sympathizers who are getting out while they can do so safely. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9869 "2022-10-19T15:54:52Z")
> **[Russian officers take bribes from soldiers wanting to avoid front-line duty,...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-officers-bribes-soldiers-wanting-140400738.html)** > > Business is good in Ukraine – if you’re a corrupt Russian army officer. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9870 "2022-10-19T15:57:24Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > The future of warfare? I’m not sure how effective it would be, due to recoil. > > [https://twitter.com/Blue\_Sauron/status/1582365515275988993](https://twitter.com/Blue_Sauron/status/1582365515275988993) Hard to say without a better video, but I’m guessing it’s fake. I don’t think a drone that apparent size could lift a machine gun and ammunition. Even if it could, the recoil would make it impossible to track a target, especially something like a moving drone. I have a vague memory of seeing a drone with a 9mm handgun attached. However, I can’t recall if it was a movie or real footage. > [@hajario](#): > > Maybe these are known Russian sympathizers who are getting out while they can do so safely. This is what I read this morning. It’s evacuating Russians/sympathizers, not Ukrainians. Probably because Putin is planning on shelling the evacuated areas and it would look bad for him if he was killing even more Russians. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/9871 "2022-10-19T15:57:55Z")
Hope so. That would be the best-case scenario, that the people who actually want to be part of Russia are the ones who are moving there (though I hope they get treated like ordinary Russian citizens when they get there, not as kidnapped Ukranian hostages.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=488) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=490)