# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 500
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10072 "2022-10-28T15:26:19Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Contract troops, who were the majority of the skilled NCO corps, were the first into the meat grinder. It’s possible that conscript privates are being led by untrained conscript corporals and by green lieutenants. It’s pretty clear that any lessons being learned aren’t being passed on by those who learn them. There’s a thriving business in videos of Ukrainian drones dropping bombs into the foxholes of various Russians. This has been going on for months now, at least. And yet, we still see lots of Russians sleeping in open foxholes with little or no effort made to install any kind of top cover or concealment to prevent or reduce the impact of such attacks. These bombs aren’t armor piercing or anything, so even a light cover that bounces the bomb a bit off to the side would probably have a huge impact on the numbers of casualties from such attacks, but the Russians don’t seem to be making these kinds of adjustments. Compare that to the US in Iraq, when it became clear that Humvees were insufficiently armored. Every guy out there started experimenting with “[Hillbilly armor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_vehicle_armour#Iraq_War)”, to see what worked to keep people alive. Such efforts finally evolved into actual upgrades to the vehicles. Learning shit like that, and making sure it gets passed on to the new guys, is a big part of the NCOs’ job, but the Russians appear to be completely dropping the ball on this. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10073 "2022-10-28T15:34:40Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > M30A1 I was corrected in an earlier thread (and rightly so) when I suggested that. Apparently the US doesn’t make or deploy those cluster warheads anymore, and hasn’t for quite a while. There was an unacceptably high dud rate combined with questionable effectiveness. They got replaced with the M30A1 warhead, which is basically somewhere between the WWI-style Shrapnel shells and a modern HE/fragmentation warhead, in that it has something like 180,000 tiny tungsten balls surrounded by 200 lbs of HE and goes off what looks like 5-10 feet above the ground. Beyond that, I’m sure there are casing fragments that get blown outward, and those could account for the puffs of dust that are further out. But it could be a regular old HE/frag warhead too… it does look a lot like it hit the ground when it detonated. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10074 "2022-10-28T16:25:22Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The Russian NCO’s must be furious at the daily screw ups by under trained troops and unmotivated soldiers. Worth mentioning that Russian warrant officers are very different from western NCO’s. For the most part they’re basically specialized arms guys and have little command responsibilities. The Russian army is a very top-down organization which is almost certainly why there has been such a seemingly high Russian general casualty rate by western standards. Russian generals tend to lead from the front more than western commanders do. Warrant officers meanwhile are not highly regarded or leaned on by their superiors because the best conscripts are recruited into officer schools. So losing experienced contract NCOs IS a real problem for Russia. The contract troops kinda know what they are doing, unlike most of the under-trained conscripts. But much less so from an organizational, leadership and command & control sense, because Russian doctrine doesn’t lean on them much for that. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10075 "2022-10-28T16:43:43Z")
> [@bump](#): > > in that it has something like 180,000 tiny tungsten balls surrounded by 200 lbs of HE In other words, upscaled omnidirectional Claymore. > **[Claymore mine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claymore_mine)** > > The Claymore mine is a directional anti-personnel mine developed for the United States Armed Forces. Its inventor, Norman MacLeod, named the mine after a large medieval Scottish sword. Unlike a conventional land mine, the Claymore may be command-detonated (fired by remote-control), and is directional, shooting a wide pattern of metal balls into a kill zone. The Claymore can also be activated by a booby-trap tripwire firing system for use in area denial operations. > The Claymore fires steel balls ... ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10076 "2022-10-28T18:26:36Z")
It seems Russia has some serious troop level problems near Kherson. Companies, normally around 100 troops, have just 6 or 8 troops instead. > **[Some Russian Troop Companies Down 94% in Ukraine, U.K. Intelligence Says](https://www.thedailybeast.com/some-russian-troop-companies-down-94-in-ukraine-uk-intelligence-says)** > > Companies are supposed to have around 100 personnel, but some are being deployed with just six men, it’s claimed. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10077 "2022-10-28T18:34:20Z")
“Ivan Ivanov.” “Present.” “Nikolai Petrov.” “Yo.” “5th Guards Regiment, all present and accounted for, sir!” ---
**Author:** ![txtumbleweed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@txtumbleweed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txtumbleweed)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10078 "2022-10-28T18:44:47Z")
It’s the Daily Beast, supposedly drawing from Ukranian Intelligence, so who knows if accurate. They are asserting that Russia has secondary lines of troops whose job is to simply shoot those trying to escape the front lines. The story is built from a purported intercepted phone call between a Russian soldier and his wife. In the call he describes being dropped off behind the frontlines while fromer inmates are taking towards the frontline. His job is to shoot any trying to run away. Supposedly, there is a third line behind him to catch those who run from the second line. > **[Russia Now Has a Second Frontline Set Up Just to Kill Its Deserters: Intel](https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia-now-has-a-second-frontline-set-up-just-to-kill-its-deserters-intel)** > > Russian soldier on leaked call said: “If someone runs back, we snuff them out.” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10079 "2022-10-28T19:19:07Z")
> [@txtumbleweed](#): > > They are asserting that Russia has secondary lines of troops whose job is to simply shoot those trying to escape the front lines. The concept is an old one: > **[Barrier troops](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_troops)** > > Barrier troops, blocking units, or anti-retreat forces are military units that are located in the rear or on the front line (behind the main forces) to maintain military discipline, prevent the flight of servicemen from the battlefield, capture spies, saboteurs and deserters, and return troops who flee from the battlefield or lag behind their units. > According to research by Jason Lyall, barrier troops are more likely to be used by the militaries of states that discriminate against the ethnic gro... ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10080 "2022-10-28T19:57:55Z")
It’s lines of barrier troops all the way down, with Putin at the bottom. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10081 "2022-10-29T00:44:44Z")
$275 Million in Additional Presidential Drawdown Security Assistance for Ukraine Oct. 28, 2022 | Today, the Department of Defense (DoD) announces the authorization of a Presidential Drawdown of security assistance valued at up to $275 million to meet Ukraine’s critical security and defense needs. This authorization is the Biden Administration’s twenty-fourth drawdown of equipment from DoD inventories for Ukraine since August 2021. Capabilities in this package include: Additional ammunition for High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS); billions of ball bearings or unitary warhead not specified. 500 precision-guided 155mm artillery rounds; most certainly Excalibur. 2,000 155mm rounds of Remote Anti-Armor Mine (RAAM) Systems; More than 1,300 anti-armor systems; AT4 or possibly some Javelin. 125 High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles (HMMWVs); Small arms and more than 2,750,000 rounds of small arms ammunition; Note that US DoD is looking to buy Soviet/Russian pattern AK-74 rifles, these are chambered for 5.45x39mm rounds unlike US 5.56x45mm or older AK-47 in 7.62x39mm. > **[U.S. Army Is Looking To Buy AK-74 Assault Rifles (Updated)](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/u-s-army-is-looking-to-buy-ak-74-assault-rifles)** > > The Army says it is willing to take certain AK-74 clones, but is not interested in offers of other AK-style guns. and Four satellite communications antennas. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10082 "2022-10-29T05:19:25Z")
I still do not trust Russia to actually be defeated. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10083 "2022-10-29T15:26:56Z")
Anyone know more about the report from AJ etc that the Russian navy ‘repelled’ a drone attack on Sevastopol? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10084 "2022-10-29T16:21:02Z")
I’ve seen reports that the Admiral Makarov was damaged and another that says a minesweeper was damaged. No confirmation from reliable sources as of yet. ---
**Author:** ![txtumbleweed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@txtumbleweed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txtumbleweed)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10085 "2022-10-29T16:24:10Z")
Are you referring to this report? > **[Russia Says Repelled Ukraine Drone Attack on Crimea Fleet - The Moscow Times](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/10/29/russia-says-repelled-ukraine-drone-attack-on-crimea-fleet-a79229)** > > The Russian army accused Ukraine Saturday of a "massive" drone attack on its Black Sea Fleet in Crimea, while Britain bluntly rejected Moscow's claims its specialists were involved. It looks like the Russians might try to use it an excuse to suspend the UN agreement to allow safe-transit for grain and fertilzer through the Black Sea. [https://news.yahoo.com/russia-suspends-participation-ukraine-grain-124850270.html](https://news.yahoo.com/russia-suspends-participation-ukraine-grain-124850270.html) ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10086 "2022-10-29T17:00:07Z")
Here’s some video footage. It appears that drone boats were used. > > ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10087 "2022-10-29T17:09:52Z")
Second video shows incoming fire: > ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10088 "2022-10-29T17:37:11Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Second video shows incoming fire: Interesting. So little info, not even known if it’s a delivery system or a kamikaze boat. While the video may be edited somewhat, the Russian attempts to attack it are extremely ineffective. It could be made of something like fiberglass that doesn’t return a good radar signal. It seems like the Russians could actually see it towards the end and the amount of fire at it is pitiful. They should have been able to put hundreds of rounds at it if needed. I’ll have to go back and see if the fire is coming from the helo or the boat. If from the boat, no wonder the helo cleared out so quick. It was almost on top of it at the beginning. Great video! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10089 "2022-10-29T17:42:51Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > It could be made of something like fiberglass that doesn’t return a good radar signal. ISTR from the bridge bombing that the drone was described as having a hull made from a ‘cut-down canoe’. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10090 "2022-10-29T17:47:18Z")
I would have liked to see the explosion. Did it hit anything at the end? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/10091 "2022-10-29T17:49:13Z")
Here’s a picture of the drone boat [posted previously](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24/960037/9333): [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdPephGWYAIS7-S?format=jpg&name=900x900) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdPephGWYAIS7-S?format=jpg&name=900x900) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=499) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=501)