# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1021 "2022-03-03T21:31:12Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I mean, I assume that’s true as well, but Russia wouldn’t be the first state to declare itself the overlord of all ethnic nationals and insist on their obedience and fealty even as they seek to sever ties. Russia threw my family out in the 1890’s, they’re not getting us back. Ever. > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Or, hey, maybe the Ukraine government won’t give a damn and they _will_ seek to confiscate the property of their own citizens for having ethnic ties to Russia. This also wouldn’t be the first time a war turned ugly along ethnic lines. Then they might have to start with their own president, a man whose first language was Russian (he’s fluent in several), with strong family ties to Russia, who had lived some years in Russia in his childhood (check his bio on wikipedia). But Zelenskyy is clearly not Russian, he’s Ukrainian. I think the Ukrainians will be able to figure out the difference between “Russian by descent but a loyal Ukrainian” and “Russian citizen loyal to Russia.” Also: > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Kharkiv is one of the most ethic Russian cities in Ukraine. There was even a significant amount of support there in 2014 for Putin’s puppet, Yanukovych. > > It’s mostly Russian-speaking, and a quarter of the population have relatives across the border in Russia. > > But Kharkhiv is fighting ferociously against the Russians. It’s been the scene of some of the heaviest fighting and is being intensely bombarded by Russian artillery and missiles at present. I’m sure the Ukrainians will work this out while avoiding throwing Russian-speaking Ukrainians under the bus. > [@JaneDoe42](#): > > Slight nit-pick…Baba didn’t curse out the soldiers. She _CURSED_ them. Much worse IMHO. > [@DesertDog](#): > > But she gave them a packet of sunflower seeds so it’s all good. That’s so Ukrainian flowers would feed on their corpses, preventing them from escaping their fate even in death. > [@JaneDoe42](#): > > I sure hope sunflower grandma survives to die peacefully years from now, surrounded by family and friends. And sunflowers. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1022 "2022-03-03T21:37:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Javelin missiles are expensive. If the tanks are backed up in traffic then they don’t have to be destroyed. The treads/drive train can be disabled with cheaper weapons. That turns a convoy into a parking lot of equipment that needs to be fixed and blocks the road. Either they have to drag them back or fix them on site which requires soldiers to defend unusable assets. > [@enipla](#): > > What kind of terrain is this convoy on? Is is hilly in any way or flat open plain. I suspect both. A flat plain that, right now, is soft mud. That’s why everything is on the road - if those heavy vehicles try to go off-road they’ll sink into the ground up to their axles. At the least. ---
**Author:** ![Drsunflower1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drsunflower1/32/12711_2.png) [@Drsunflower1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drsunflower1)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1023 "2022-03-03T21:45:22Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > That’s so Ukrainian flowers would feed on their corpses, preventing them from escaping their fate even in death. This. It really was a curse. Textbook hexing. That woman is my new role model 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1024 "2022-03-03T21:47:55Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > That’s so Ukrainian flowers would feed on their corpses, preventing them from escaping their fate even in death. That’s even more badass. I wanna be like her when I grow up. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1025 "2022-03-03T21:53:40Z")
Apparently over 6,000 Russian protesters have been detained. > **[Girl, 7, cries for mum behind bars after arrest at Russian anti-war demo](https://nypost.com/2022/03/02/russian-primary-school-kids-arrested-in-russia-for-anti-war-protests-politician/)** > > THIS is the heartbreaking moment a girl, 7, wept through prison bars after she and her mum were arrested at an anti-war demo in Russia. Haunting video shows the girl’s mum trying to explain t… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1026 "2022-03-03T22:07:41Z")
6000 arrested so far. Probably many more to come. Each of these people have family and friends. - I don’t think this is going to win hearts and minds of the Russian people, nor make them more amenable to killing more Ukraine civilians with missile strikes on their apartments. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1027 "2022-03-03T22:14:37Z")
From the Guardian - > The exodus has been fuelled by [rumours that authorities could declare martial law as soon as Friday](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/03/kremlin-denies-planning-to-institute-martial-law-in-russia), when the federation council, Russia’s upper house of parliament, is due to hold an unscheduled meeting. Martial law would mean a harder clampdown on protests, total control of media, and closure of the borders forbidding anyone from leaving. It looks like they’re afraid of mass departures of knowledge from Russia. So they’ll hold their own people in the country at gunpoint. This is not going to end well for Putin. At some point, the people who have been used to a relatively good life are not going to be happy eating potato soup for the 5th time, just because Putin wants a war. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1028 "2022-03-03T22:39:18Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > This is not going to end well for Putin. At some point, the people who have been used to a relatively good life are not going to be happy eating potato soup for the 5th time, just because Putin wants a war. Let them eat cake. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1029 "2022-03-03T22:39:32Z")
> **[Ukraine revealed secret battle plans left behind by Russian troops and...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-revealed-secret-battle-plans-211801990.html)** > > The seized documents were posted on Facebook by Ukraine's Ministry of Defense and showed the war plans of Russian forces. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1030 "2022-03-03T22:52:26Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > This is not going to end well for Putin. At some point, the people who have been used to a relatively good life are not going to be happy eating potato soup for the 5th time, just because Putin wants a war. Yeah, they also said this about Stalin. The chances of this happening are… not zero, not impossible, but quite slim. Apart from the Bolshevik Revolution and Krushchev’s ouster, Russia isn’t having much historical track record of popular uprising or palace coups. People keep looking at this through the filter of what they expect well-off Westerners would do in this situation. It simply doesn’t apply. This is Russia, and not the Yeltsin iterations of it. Set your expectations accordingly. We’re probably looking at a new Iron Curtain for some indeterminate period of time. We’ll spend at least the next 10 years marveling at how such a thing could happen, because history ended in 1991 and we were supposed to be past all such things. We’re not past all this. There were some moments when we might have peacefully changed the course of history, but such moments are now long gone. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1031 "2022-03-03T23:32:46Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > People keep looking at this through the filter of what they expect well-off Westerners would do in this situation. It simply doesn’t apply. This is Russia, and not the Yeltsin iterations of it. Set your expectations accordingly. Yeah, agreed. Don’t get me wrong, I would love to see a news bulletin that Putin has died of extreme lead poisoning, but the chances of that are slim. The chances of some sort of Russia uprising are equally slim. That said, I do expect the situation in Russia to deteriorate, especially from a morale perspective, and especially as the sanctions and other actions really sink in. But people are letting their enthusiasm really get the better of them on a lot of this stuff. Russia, despite the setbacks, is still pushing forward on all fronts, and still massively outguns the Ukrainians. For whatever reasons, Russia has shot itself in the foot…or, perhaps, stomped on its collective dick with its big golf shoes…but in the end it has what it needs to push through the current offensives and take at least eastern Ukraine. It’s taking them longer, and it’s costing much more than they thought it would…but, assuming Russia is willing to pay the price, they can do it and there isn’t much Ukraine can do except make it cost as much as possible. Which they are already doing. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1032 "2022-03-03T23:32:48Z")
I love how they posted this on facebook. Ukraine is winning the PR war at any rate. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1033 "2022-03-03T23:35:42Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Ukraine is winning the PR war at any rate. Absolutely, at least in the west. I have to admit, I’ve been more than a bit dismayed by some of my Indian friend’s reactions to this whole thing, and the Chinese reaction has been…disturbing. But this has been a solid PR win for Ukraine in the west, especially in western Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1034 "2022-03-03T23:41:58Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > We’re not past all this. There were some moments when we might have peacefully changed the course of history, but such moments are now long gone. I agree, and it really is just wishful thinking on my part (and others) that Putin should just have an accident soon. A new Iron Curtain is certainly possible, but it would be smaller inside, have fewer resources and a larger world arrayed against it with more crushing economic sanctions At the moment, Russia seems to have North Korea, Syriam Belarus and Iritrea solidly on side. With China and India sitting back and hedging their bets. The situation looks a little different from the 1950’s or 1960’s. In those decades, I don’t recall banking shutdowns (including Switzerland!!), worldwide sanctions, Sweden sending military equipment, or a complete ban on international sports activities. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1035 "2022-03-04T00:07:01Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > That’s so Ukrainian flowers would feed on their corpses, preventing them from escaping their fate even in death. Uh, whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1036 "2022-03-04T00:07:28Z")
Wondering if it could be an effective strategy to airdrop thousands of cases of vodka on the demoralized Russian forces. Or just leave them laying around everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1037 "2022-03-04T00:10:34Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > People keep looking at this through the filter of what they expect well-off Westerners would do in this situation. It simply doesn’t apply. This is Russia, and not the Yeltsin iterations of it. Set your expectations accordingly. I don’t disagree, though I certainly wish it were otherwise. It might well be worth mentioning, however, that Russian oligarchs are certainly well off – but not nearly as well off as they used to be, and getting more and more pissed about it. Will that have any effect on Putin’s longevity? Who knows. The only thing that’s clear is that Putin is in a bad place and desperate to turn things around. Currently all he’s been able to do is broadcast the kinds of lies that we used to associate with Baghdad Bob. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1038 "2022-03-04T00:30:14Z")
> **[Colonel Oleksandr “Grey Wolf” Oksanchenko, the Ukrainian Air Force Su-27...](https://theaviationgeekclub.com/colonel-oleksandr-grey-wolf-oksanchenko-the-ukrainian-air-force-su-27-flanker-display-pilot-between-2013-2018-killed-in-an-air-battle-on-friday-night/)** > > Colonel Oleksandr “Grey Wolf” Oksanchenko, the Ukrainian Air Force Su-27 Flanker display pilot between 2013-2018, Killed in an Air Battle ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1039 "2022-03-04T00:55:52Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > This is not going to end well for Putin. At some point, the people who have been used to a relatively good life are not going to be happy eating potato soup for the 5th time, just because Putin wants a war. I’m starting to think that, no matter what happens on the battlefield of Ukraine, this is going to end up as a fatal over-reach by Putin. I saw this just now: > **[Putin's main propaganda news outlet in the US ceases production after mass...](https://www.rawstory.com/rt-america-shuts-down/)** > > CNN is reporting that the production company behind RT America laid off most of its staff on Thursday. Misha Solodovnikov, the general manager of T&R; Productions, told staff that it will be "ceasing production" at all of its locations "as a... His biggest international propaganda arm has fallen apart in a week. It took years to build this up, and he destroyed it _in a week_. He’s never going to recover from this. I’m not sure how it’s all going to go in detail, but the end result seems like it’s going to be Russia utterly destroyed as an economic power and as a conventional military power. They’ll be a destitute nuclear power with no other effective military forces. No one will want to invade them because of the nuclear threat, but they won’t be able to project power across the street, let alone across a border. He’s gone all in on a busted straight. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1040 "2022-03-04T01:00:06Z")
It has gotten a lot worse. **Russian army fired on a Nuclear Power Plant. It is on fire and they’re still firing at it apparently.** From Reuters: > **[Putin likens Western sanctions to war as Russian assault traps Ukrainian...](https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/top-wrap-1-europes-largest-nuclear-power-plant-fire-after-russian-attack-mayor-2022-03-04/)** > > Russian President Vladimir Putin said Western sanctions were akin to war as his forces pressed their assault on Ukraine on Saturday for a 10th day and the IMF warned the conflict would have a "severe impact" on the global economy. This is insane, what sort of insane officer follows insane orders to fire on a Nuclear Power Plant? If this is accurate, it is probably time for NATO to step in, in a military capacity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=53)