# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1281 "2022-03-05T23:16:41Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > American businesses have invested heavily in Russia and Ukraine. > > What happens if Russia seizes these assets? Well, from your provided links looks like McDonald’s loses nearly 10% of its revenue, Carnival about 3.5%, Coca-Cola a big chunk… If the assets are seized they lose money. That’s one of the risks of investing in a foreign country. > [@aceplace57](#): > > I remember when Nixon opened trade with China. The hope was encouraging international investment in China and Russia would prevent war. Mutual Trade would make war impractical and too costly. I still think there is merit in that. I think interconnecting everyone economically via trade has prevented war in the past, but no matter how good a tool it is, it is not perfect. It can’t prevent war in all possible scenarios. > [@Alessan](#): > > Israeli Prime Minister Bennett flew to Moscow today, in secret, and is currently meeting with Putin. He’s the first Western leader to meet with him since this began, and Israeli officials say that he went there with the White House’s blessing to try to mediate peace. I am puzzled to how that is supposed to work. The USSR and Israel and then Russia and Israel have never been friends and often at odds. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > He’s talking to an internal audience, here, but he does already seem to be dialing back the crazy a bit: Then either the drugs wore off or he took his dose on time today. Honestly, all along he’s been sounding like a wife-beater claiming it’s the wife’s fault he “had” to break her jaw. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1282 "2022-03-05T23:18:52Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > A huge part of the problem is that the Russian people are being subjected to a huge disinformation campaign orchestrated by Putin and his minions, and real information from the free world is being blocked as much as possible. > > Apparently the other part of the problem is that some people are just ineffable assholes, like the example in my thread of someone in Toronto who got out of his car that was flying a Russian flag, and in the middle of traffic attacked a car with a Ukrainian flag, breaking its rear window with two children in the back seat. And a third problem is that being seen on social media, the TV, or really in any public way NOT holding to the government line can get you a long, long prison sentence far, far away. WTF are these people filming Russians thinking? Don’t they realize the risk they pose to those people? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1283 "2022-03-05T23:20:25Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > You thought sanctions were an alternative to war? Putin says they’re equivalent to a declaration of war. > > [Putin says sanctions introduced on Russia are equal to a "declaration of war"](https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-05-22/h_34e69607d6c894cb17da288fcf78e2f4) Everything to Putin is equivalent to war because war is what Putin wants. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1284 "2022-03-05T23:20:46Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I am puzzled to how that is supposed to work. The USSR and Israel and then Russia and Israel have never been friends and often at odds. A lot of the oligarchs with strong connections to Putin’s government are Jewish, with a number of them being Israeli citizens. That may factor into it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1285 "2022-03-05T23:23:22Z")
I find that surprising given the very long history of antisemitism in Russia. Then again, I have found many things surprising this week, what’s one more? ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1286 "2022-03-05T23:27:58Z")
Most of them seem to have worked their way up the ranks of industry, specifically mechanical engineering and resource extraction. I imagine this is as close to a meritocracy as existed in post-Soviet Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1287 "2022-03-05T23:28:49Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I am puzzled to how that is supposed to work. The USSR and Israel and then Russia and Israel have never been friends and often at odds. Their goals have often aligned in Syria of late. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1288 "2022-03-05T23:33:07Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > A huge part of the problem is that the Russian people are being subjected to a huge disinformation campaign orchestrated by Putin and his minions, and real information from the free world is being blocked as much as possible. When access to multiple normal information channels is blocked, doesn’t that in itself tell people something? – as others have said: some of the people who say they back Putin no matter what, and/or who otherwise won’t voice objections to the interviewer, may also be afraid to speak otherwise. Covid masks don’t hide enough of your face to really prevent identification. Of course, people who are afraid to speak otherwise are very often also too afraid to help do anything about the problem. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1289 "2022-03-05T23:33:29Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > One says that Russian forces are slowly but inevitably closing a stranglehold on Ukraine and it’s only a matter of time. > > The other points to rampant Russian corruption, mass desertion, bursting tires, low morale, conscripts punching holes in fuel tanks to evade duty, and seems to be celebrating an imminent Russian collapse. > > Which is it? The former claim is supported by legitimately vetted evidence. The latter really isn’t. That sort of thing is happening but not in the vast amounts you’re being told by people on Twitter and such. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > In any case, they might be [9K34 Strela-3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K34_Strela-3) man-portable, heat-seeking missile that was adopted by the Soviet Union in 1974, and which Wikipedia says is still in service. Or Strela-2, aka the SA-7 Grail. Grails and Gremlins are useful against slower moving aircraft; not so much jets. For those you need proper SAMs, like the S-300. I don’t think Russia uses either anymore, they’re on later models. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1290 "2022-03-05T23:45:02Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Their goals have often aligned in Syria of late. It’s not so much an alignment as it is an arrangement. For the last few years, Israel has been been trying to prevent Iran and Hezbollah from entrenching in Syria, which often involves airstrikes on (Assad-controlled) Syrian forces that get in its way. Despite the fact that the Syrians are nominally Russian allies, Russian forces in Syria, which include S-400 anti-aircraft missiles, have given Israel a certain freedom of operation, even coordinating with it so that they won’t accidentally shoot down any Israeli planes. It’s been working out pretty well, so far, but Israel is acutely aware of the fact that if Russia ever decided to turn those AA batteries on, they could pose a significant threat not only to the Israeli air force, but also to any civilian aircraft taking off or landing at any airport in the country. As many Eastern European countries can tell you, having the Russian bear on your border makes you tread lightly. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1291 "2022-03-06T00:38:13Z")
Hot off the press (not sure if confirmed, so apply a grain of salt): One person ( Denis Kireev) who participated for the Ukr. in the first round of “peace talks” in Belarusia got killed … . **really really interesting part:** killed by Ukraine - obviously he was a spy for Putin and Ukr. Security Agency recorded some phone calls: google translate: His name is listed among other Ukrainians who died “during the performance of special assignments” and defending Ukraine. At the same time, it was previously reported that Kireev was suspected of treason, and he was killed by members of the Security Service of Ukraine during his arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1292 "2022-03-06T00:44:41Z")
That’s interesting if true because it suggests there is a leak in the Russian camp - otherwise how would the Ukrainians know? We have already heard claims that assassination plots against Zelenskyy have been foiled because of anti-war elements within the FSB (Russian intelligence) tipping off the Ukrainians. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1293 "2022-03-06T00:57:41Z")
I suspect there is a LOT of stuff going on that we don’t know about, likely won’t know about for decades, and may never know about. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1294 "2022-03-06T01:09:48Z")
As is the case with every war. It was thirty years after WWII when _some_ of Ultra’s secrets about Enigma were declassified and suddenly a lot of things made sense. For example the two “happy times” the U-boats suddenly had for a while was because of changes to the machines making them undecypherable for a few months. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1295 "2022-03-06T01:19:13Z")
Putin’s appearance with flight attendants looked a bit questionable and if you look carefully there are a number of reasons why it looked a bit like he wasn’t actually there in the room. For sure if it was faked they did a decent job but you can see his hand appear to move through the microphone slightly. > Though this article says they are not sure and might just be a consequence of the video being compressed: > **[Did Putin Use A Green Screen To Fake An Aeroflot Meeting?](https://goosed.ie/news/putin-fake-green-screen-video/)** > > We need to be hypercritical of everything we see on social media today. There's misinformation and disinformation everywhere linking to Vladimir Putin's Anyway, shortly after Putin’s video President Zalenskyy looked like he deliberately, and unusually, moved the microphone at the end of his address as if to troll Putin. [![](https://i.ibb.co/hHdcW41/Screenshot-2022-03-06-at-01-14-31.png) ](https://i.ibb.co/hHdcW41/Screenshot-2022-03-06-at-01-14-31.png) Apologies for the play button symbol but I’m not fast enough to screenshot a moving video - anyway, you get the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1296 "2022-03-06T01:31:43Z")
Green screen wouldn’t do that. Green screen is a flat matte. It doesn’t create 3D modeling out of thin air. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1297 "2022-03-06T03:05:17Z")
Press conference with Badass-looking captured Russian soldiers pleading with other Russians to realize what’s going on. I haven’t seen anything that makes me think it might be fake but also it might be fake. Pretty powerful if it’s not fake. Skip to 8 mins if you want to see the main gist of their pleas from the biggest guy in the middle. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/LD_4Y2TQotA/maxresdefault.jpg "We were preparing to this war since summer 2021: captured Russians hold press conference (Kyiv 2.03)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD_4Y2TQotA) ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1298 "2022-03-06T03:44:15Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Some poor bastard in Ukraine is going to have to go through that mess and sort the Twinkies from the Sno-Balls. I imagine a lot of people in Ukraine have experience figuring out which pieces of obsolete Soviet era equipment still works. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1299 "2022-03-06T03:49:00Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I understand Putin’s actions are responsible. What he’s doing damages international economies. I’m not sure what will happen long term. > > This goes far beyond Ukraine. There was a time people in Europe and North America understood that winning a war requires sacrifice. And sacrifices hurt. I’m looking at gas prices right now, and actively making plans to use my bike as much as possible this coming year. We’ll all have to be prepared to make choices like that. As hard as it may feel to us, it’s peanuts to what the Ukrainians are feeling right now, and will continue to feel for probably years to come. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1300 "2022-03-06T04:14:48Z")
If the video is to be believed, the police officer turned soldier rephrased what I said earlier. “We can invade the territory but we cannot invade the people.” He knows they destroy property but they cannot maintain control of the people. If he’s an actor he’s a damn good one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=64) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=66)