# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 78
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1541 "2022-03-07T22:08:05Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Um… all of them. Kyiv hasn’t suffered any war damage. Did you watch the videos? So the main TV tower in Kyiv wasn’t struck by a missile? There weren’t dead people lying around street turned well-done crispy critter? The Babi Yar Holocaust memorial wasn’t damaged? There are no residential high-rises with rocket damage? We’ve just imagined it all? [Here is a link to a variety of images of war damage in Kyiv.](https://www.google.com/search?source=univ&tbm=isch&q=war+damage+in+kyriv&client=firefox-b-1-d&fir=-UkFINaRUn95hM%252C77bu4PNyPjPNFM%252C_%253BMdq0zxTL1BNEzM%252Ccy-hg34v54dKBM%252C_%253BgpfU_ta7kDwR7M%252C9pOusHdv1Ib6yM%252C_%253BICzQY9x-vruTiM%252C9pOusHdv1Ib6yM%252C_%253BRuyWZ1YMndUaUM%252Ccy-hg34v54dKBM%252C_%253BV7G0xsItZ-pHsM%252Ccy-hg34v54dKBM%252C_%253B6srbIJRiWPn8cM%252Ccy-hg34v54dKBM%252C_%253BnqwwuD48AsST7M%252C9pOusHdv1Ib6yM%252C_%253BBhsxkggnMW0PwM%252C77bu4PNyPjPNFM%252C_%253Bvo3OQ8s41PBuBM%252Ccy-hg34v54dKBM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kRi9vu7IkHwF5bdZE8bNKFx4dDfGQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjj0MaIgbX2AhWEXc0KHc8HDMoQjJkEegQIBhAC&biw=1639&bih=836) Seriously, keep up with current events a little better please. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1542 "2022-03-07T22:13:48Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I remember reading the farmers burned their fields to deny the Germans any food in WWII. That’s a tactic used in Eastern Europe for centuries for all sorts of invaders. It’s not like Ukraine will be allowed to plant food this year if the war runs into summer. > [@aceplace57](#): > > Just watched Steve1989Mre review of Ukrainian MRE. OMG, that is a lot of fatty food. 4000 calories. That’s 2 days for me. There’s plenty of food to share with civilians. I could easily see 2 soldiers sharing one MRE. Actually, soldier that are young (18-25) men engaged in vigorous activity, which fighting a war tends to be, could in fact need that many calories on a daily basis. Even more in cold weather. > [@aceplace57](#): > > Donetsk and Lugansk are still in contention. But I think Ukraine would happily give them up in exchange for a complete Russian withdrawal. Maybe two weeks ago. Not so sure about that now. Also - how do Dontesk and Lugansk feel about it? Or don’t they get a choice? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1543 "2022-03-07T22:18:16Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > But even so… Putin is making a big deal about uniting countries with Russian culture, and Kyiv is the absolute centre and origin of Russian culture, with many, many important cultural buildings and landmarks. It would be like the West bombarding Rome. Well, as it happens, Rome has been bombarded. _By both sides in the same war_. You’d be surprised what people are capable of when they’re fixated on winning. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1544 "2022-03-07T22:26:53Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s interesting the Russians are dressed formally and the Ukrainians aren’t. I wonder if that’s a deliberate decision? Oh, yeah - I’m assuming the Russians are trying to be intimidating and the Ukrainians are busy fighting a war and don’t give a flip. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1545 "2022-03-07T22:34:36Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > It was this appeal that made me question if Zelensky isn’t motivated by a hubris of his own, even if it doesn’t come close to approaching Putin’s. Either he knew how unrealistic a no-fly zone was, and asked for it anyway - to show his people that he’s trying every possible option - or he actually DOESN’T know how unrealistic the request was, and thinks that NATO would actually step up and risk direct engagement with Russia, with all of the horrific implications that would come with the escalation of that conflict. The former scenario is understandable from a PR perspective, even if it’s an impotent gesture. The latter would put my estimation of Zelensky down several notches. Third possibility: The drama about the NFZ is deliberate between Zelenskyy and NATO/EU acting as misdirection so the Russians are less likely to notice something else they’re doing. What? I don’t know - that’s the point, it’s secret/not-obvious. Likely? Maybe not, but unlikely things happen in war. Could Zelenskyy pull off act like that? Sure - he is, after all, a professional actor. > [@XT](#): > > IIRC, he is actually a comedian, not a military guy, so he might not know. I suspect, given how well the “actually a comedian” is doing running a war that he probably IS getting help from real military guys and listening to what they have to say. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1546 "2022-03-07T22:39:00Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I suspect, given how well the “actually a comedian” is doing running a war that he probably IS getting help from real military guys and listening to what they have to say. I suspect you are correct. Wars like this tend to have fast learning curves…or really short ones. But that doesn’t mean he’s been clued in on all the intricacies, and he might not realize or have been told much about no-fly zones and how viable they would be projecting from other countries into the SAM envelope of a nation like Russia. Or, it could be misdirection, or he could be applying pressure for something else (you ask for one thing that you know you can’t or won’t get so you can push for something you could get). ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1547 "2022-03-07T22:41:18Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Actually, the _best_ possible outcome is for someone to put a bullet in Putin’s cranium … This much is an incredibly bad idea. Right now, Vladdy has a very low level of support across Russia for this action. Most of the people really do not give much of a flying fuck about this issue and are pissed about their current situation. Taking out Vlad will allow the state’s media organs to maximise the martyr effect, reeling in rafts of popular support for razing Ukraine. Right now, he makes an easy ire magnet, but once gone, the misery being visited upon the motherland suddenly becomes all those other countries that are doing it to them. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1548 "2022-03-07T22:52:28Z")
I’m inclined to think that Zelensky is pushing the no fly zone idea because if he can get demonstrations across the west calling for a no fly zone it keeps up the pressure on Russia even though it has no chance of happening. If the public in the UK, France, and US are demanding more action rather than less, there’s less chance of weakening resolve on the sanctions that are in place. And those governments might find other ways to pressure Russia to keep their voters happy, even if it isn’t in the form of a no fly zone. Oil embargo, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1549 "2022-03-07T22:53:51Z")
Pretty sure @Euphonious_Polemic is suggesting that Putin be taken out by fellow Russians in a coup, not assassinated by the CIA. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1550 "2022-03-07T23:02:11Z")
Yes, this. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1551 "2022-03-07T23:08:13Z")
Apparently, the Kremlin has a list of countries that have been “unfriendly” towards Russia, including: Australia, UK, EU countries, Iceland, Canada, Liechtenstein, Monaco, New Zealand, Norway, Korea, San Marino, Singapore, USA, Taiwan, Ukraine, Montenegro, Switzerland, Japan. San Marino and Liechtenstein? Iceland? Some of these entries seem arbitrary. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1552 "2022-03-07T23:15:17Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > If this was a game of Risk, played on the kitchen table… I thought it was being played on a subway somewhere in Manhattan by a couple of guys who look strangely like Michael Richards and Wayne Knight 😜. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1553 "2022-03-07T23:25:39Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > pparently, the Kremlin has a list of countries that have been “unfriendly” towards Russia, Wouldn’t it save time just to compile a list of countries that are “friendly”? North Korea Syria Belarus Eritrea Sort of friendly so far: China India ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1554 "2022-03-07T23:27:31Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Oil embargo, maybe? It would be the thing that would hurt Putin et al the most. But it would also hurt the Europeans a lot…and so would America and most other countries. But it’s really Europe who would take the brunt of sanctions on oil…or gas, which, again, would impact Europe the most. I don’t know if there is political will for that level, but I would be for that, even though it would hit my own pocketbook as well. Of course, I don’t have to worry about not having gas to heat my home if another nasty polar vortex comes down and hits Europe, so it’s easier for me to say this than for them to live it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1555 "2022-03-07T23:29:14Z")
Over 130 countries voted for a UN (non-binding) censure of Russia and this invasion, so you could probably put all of them on the list…though not all have imposed sanctions, so their hate list might be only those countries that have. IIRC, it was less than 30 who abstained (this includes India and China), and only like 5 who voted against and were clearly on Russia’s side (all are client states of Russia, again IIRC). ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1556 "2022-03-07T23:37:53Z")
The New York Times, quoting a Ukrainian psychologist: > ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1557 "2022-03-08T00:05:11Z")
That’s awesome. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1558 "2022-03-08T00:24:55Z")
Do we know how many Ukrainian people have been killed? I heard or read an estimate of 250K, but I can’t recall where I heard or read it. Please tell me that’s not accurate. I can’t imagine Ukraine ever forgiving this terrible deed. And they aren’t the only country who will now have hatred for Russia and its people. I saw an interview with a man at the border. I can’t recall if it was Poland or Hungary, but he was moved on the first or second day of the war to go to the border on his day off with a donation, and he hasn’t left since. He almost sobbed a few times from all the pain he was seeing on the faces of people he’s trying to help. What a tragedy this all is. I know we don’t want to start World War III, but I’m not so sure Putin hasn’t already started it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1559 "2022-03-08T00:27:18Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Do we know how many Ukrainian people have been killed? I heard or read an estimate of 250K, but I can’t recall where I heard or read it. Please tell me that’s not accurate. I haven’t heard anything close to that. More like 2000 or so, civilians anyway. That’s actually quite a lot. Soldiers, well…anywhere between 7000-12000 are the figures I recall off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1560 "2022-03-08T00:31:22Z")
Thanks XT, I’m consuming so much media about this, so I’m glad that I likely misheard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=77) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=79)