### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [March 8, 2022, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1685 "2022-03-08T23:04:07Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#):
>
> That Polish plane deal is quite interesting: it can’t be one country doing it alone as that exposes them to Russian anger and possible repercussions. So it has to be done with multiple countries. But it can’t be a NATO. So it all has to be done really opaquely. Of course Russia knows what’s going on, but they don’t quite know exactly who to point the finger at except “the West”.
That’s why they are turning the planes over to the US, so we can take whatever heat comes out of this. Poland is just making an exchange with the US, so they are technically not involved in transferring them to Ukraine.
I don’t think any of this stuff is fooling Russia, but it gives some cover I suppose. Although, a lot of countries are full stop sending arms to Ukraine directly, so not sure how much cover that will actually be or if it will amount to anything.
Really, what folks sound be worrying about is how Russia will react to the US stopping all oil purchases with Russia. Currently, it’s only the US, and that won’t really impact them that much (IIRC, we get around 8% of our oil from Russia, and that is probably a pretty small percentage of their production). But things on the sanction side really seem to be escalating, and I don’t know how Russia will react. Their currency has tanked, their economy is tanking, it’s having a huge impact on their people…and no idea how Putin is feeling right now. Cornered? Threatened?
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [March 8, 2022, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1686 "2022-03-08T23:10:45Z")
We don’t know that - we just know that the US hasn’t said what they will do.
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [March 8, 2022, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1687 "2022-03-08T23:17:37Z")
I’m not sure what you’re referring to by “we don’t know that”, but Blinken was clear that delivering Polish fighter jets was one of this current three priorities, though I agree that stating it was a priority is not the same as a done deal. However I had the impression that the biggest obstacle was whether Poland would go along with it, which apparently they now are:
> American officials on Sunday identified three areas on which the United States could soon take action in an attempt to address Russia’s intensifying war in Ukraine: a ban on Russian oil imports, a declaration of war crimes against Russia and help facilitating delivery of Polish fighter jets to Ukraine.
> [https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/06/politics/us-officials-action-ukraine/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/06/politics/us-officials-action-ukraine/index.html)
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### Author:  [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)
#### Post date: [March 8, 2022, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1688 "2022-03-08T23:25:19Z")
Update to the Polish airplane swap. The Pentagon says
> …we do not believe Poland’s proposal is a tenable one.
>
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [March 8, 2022, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1689 "2022-03-08T23:29:17Z")
Sounds like some in-fighting going on between the State Department and the Pentagon. Just what we need! 🙄
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [March 8, 2022, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1690 "2022-03-08T23:55:54Z")
CNN has just released a more complete article covering the “not tenable” statement from the Pentagon. It’s disappointing and I have no idea what’s going on, as Zelensky has been desperately asking for fighter jets.
> **[Pentagon says Polish proposal to transfer jets to US to give to Ukraine isn't...](https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/08/politics/poland-jets-ukraine-russia/index.html)**
>
> The Pentagon on Tuesday evening dismissed Poland's proposal floated hours earlier to transfer its MiG-29 fighter jets to the United States for delivery to Ukraine.
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1691 "2022-03-09T00:02:13Z")
Whether the plane deal goes through or not, the on again off again reporting must be driving Moscow nuts.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1692 "2022-03-09T00:12:33Z")
Poland shouldn’t disclosed the exact American base that would receive the MiGs. They could have said delivery would be somewhere outside Poland.
I suspect these MiGs will need maintenance before they fly anywhere. Poor maintenance has hampered Russia’s equipment. Poland may not be much better.
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### Author:  [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1693 "2022-03-09T00:20:16Z")
Regarding these planes, are these MiG 29s the equivalent of 1980s / 1990s era F/A 18s? In other words useful for shooting down Russian planes and helicopters, but not so much for bombing ground forces? For that wouldn’t they need Su-25s, which from what I understand are the equivalent of the A-10 Warthog?
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### Author:  [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1694 "2022-03-09T00:29:42Z")
Similar to the F-16 and F/A-18. Multirole fighters capable of some air to ground combat. Not sure how much you’d want to put them up against modern SAM technology.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1695 "2022-03-09T00:32:43Z")
Well that’s awfully disappointing. I hope they figure it out and get it done.
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### Author:  [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1696 "2022-03-09T00:37:06Z")
On the political front, Poland (perhaps intentionally, to take the direct heat off of them, as others have mentioned above) has put the Biden Administration in a tough position; take possession of and deliver the airplanes and Russia has a casus belli that the US is trying to provoke a war that will devastate Europe (would bet money Putin uses those words if that option plays out). Manage not to work something out and the aircraft stay parked in Poland and the Republicans, who have been pretty much playing “me, too!” catchup on this issue have a ready-made case of “Democrats and Senile Joe won’t support the brave Ukranian soldiers, they are a mess and a muddle, a real President (rhymes with Rump) would have gotten those planes delivered and made a difference.” Lies and obfuscation of course, but it’ll play well in Peoria (and elsewhere).
VP Harris is due in Warsaw Wednesday. Hope the USG can come up with something then or it could get ugly.
IMHO as always. YMMV.
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### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1697 "2022-03-09T00:46:12Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#):
>
> Regarding these planes, are these MiG 29s the equivalent of 1980s / 1990s era F/A 18s?
16 of them (at least) were supposedly modernized starting in 2011 to extend airframe lifespan to 2030, at least modestly modernize the avionics (which were originally first generation, early 1980’s vintage) and improve operating compatibility with Poland’s F-16s.
Here’s an article talking about [American pilot experience playing with the MiG-29 vs the F-15/16/18](https://theaviationgeekclub.com/f-16-vs-mig-29-when-the-mighty-viper-dogfighted-with-the-fulcrum-for-the-first-time/). Short story - they’re pretty decent planes for their generation with a couple of design advantages as well as some limitations and flaws.
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### Author:  [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1698 "2022-03-09T00:51:08Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> From the Guardian Live Blog…
> McDonald’s,Coke, PepsiCo, and Starbucks are temporarily closing in Russia.
>
> This should get the public’s attention. State media can’t hide this from them. This is mostly a PR win in a state that controls the media.
I saw a video of a mall in Moscow where all of the high end stores like Gucci are empty and closed because of the boycott.
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### Author:  [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1699 "2022-03-09T00:53:47Z")
> [@wolfpup](#):
>
> Sounds like some in-fighting going on between the State Department and the Pentagon. Just what we need!
That’s par for the course.
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### Author:  [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1700 "2022-03-09T00:54:57Z")
> [@asterion](#):
>
> Similar to the F-16 and F/A-18. Multirole fighters capable of some air to ground combat. Not sure how much you’d want to put them up against modern SAM technology.
On the other hand, if Russia has a significant amount of modern SAM technology, they don’t seem to be using it much.
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