# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 88
### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1741 "2022-03-09T09:20:58Z")
That would explain it. I’m still not sure what good it does to steal all the aircraft. From what I understand Russia farms out all it’s maintenance to other countries. Aircraft need a lot of maintenance, old aircraft need even more. Depending how this war goes they could all end up rusting in a hanger in Siberia.
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1742 "2022-03-09T09:25:47Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> Canada has a hub in Germany, why don’t they do it?
Where might this “hub” be? Both Canadian Forces Base Lahr and Canadian Forces Base Baden-Soellingen closed in the early 90s after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. The United States European Command is in the best position to do this (transfer of Polish fighter jets to Ukraine).
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1743 "2022-03-09T09:33:19Z")
[From here:](https://breachmedia.ca/canada-building-global-network-of-military-bases-in-aggressive-shift/)
> Going under the project name “Global Reach,“ the Canadian government identified locations and began negotiating to open the network of bases.
>
> “While we have deployed and sustained forces over all parts of the world in the past few decades, our ability to deploy forces has been hampered by the lack of a forward base we could use to stage our deployment into the area of operations,” read notes from a 2010 presentation given by Major-General McQuillan to Canadian military command.
>
> Initially conceived to be established in seven regions, to date they have been established in four—Germany in 2009, Kuwait in 2011, Jamaica in 2016, and Senegal in 2018.
> [@wolfpup](#):
>
> The United States European Command is in the best position to do this (transfer of Polish fighter jets to Ukraine).
No, Poland is the best place to do this. It’s right next door and doesn’t have the planes flying away from where they are needed and then back again.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1744 "2022-03-09T09:42:21Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> Everybody overestimates their victories publicly and underestimates their losses publicly. It’s not just that there was never a 56 tank convoy.
Again: I don’t care about that 56 tank convoy. Lots of people on the internet say lots of garbage. So what?
The page linked above _is_ the neutral third party, and they have photos confirming each one. Possibly some of the dates and locations are suspect, but they nevertheless have pretty clear pictures of each kill, and anyone with a modicum of observational skills can tell that they are not simply repeats. The handy Zs on most of them demonstrate that they’re from this war and not from something years ago.
The 56 tank convoy never had more than a couple of possibly related photos with it. The site above has at least one unique photo for each kill. That’s why I don’t care about the convoy but think that site is probably one of the better available sources.
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1745 "2022-03-09T10:10:50Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#):
>
> The page linked above _is_ the neutral third party
What neutral third party? And how does a neutral third party have access to a war zone to confirm anything?
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#):
>
> That’s why I don’t care about the convoy but think that site is probably one of the better available sources.
What reason do you have to believe the site is better than any other? What are their credentials for tallying material losses in other war zones while the war was still going on?
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### Author:  [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1746 "2022-03-09T10:42:00Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> What neutral third party? And how does a neutral third party have access to a war zone to confirm anything?
Oryx. They have access to the same social media posts that everyone else does, and probably some more private submissions. It doesn’t matter because they provide links to all of them.
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> What reason do you have to believe the site is better than any other?
Because they have photographs for each one. This seems very simple to me. The 56 tank convoy claims did not come with 56 individually numbered photos. This site does have a numbered photo for each one. And it’s very easy for me to tell the difference between them and see that they are not repeats.
I am not an expert in Soviet era military hardware and cannot tell you the difference between a T-72B and a T-72B3. However, I can see that they are different photos. Often it is as simple as seeing that the turret has been blown off in one and not the other.
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1747 "2022-03-09T10:47:07Z")
There is [this](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1500301348780199937.html) on the Chechen convoy from an FSB analyst, a piece said by Bellingcat to be highly likely to genuine:
> Kadyrov has gone nuts. We (FSB) were very close to a conflict with him because the Ukrainians claimed to having received intel from the FSB on his squad in Kyiv.
>
> Kadyrov’s squad was absolutely demolished before they even had a chance to fight and they got blown to pieces. I do not have any info that it was an FSB leak to Ukraine, so I’d give it a 1-2% chance – but can’t exclude this possibility completely.
It’s certainly notable that we haven’t heard anything about Chechen soldiers in Ukraine since then.
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### Author:  [@michaelfrey288](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/michaelfrey288)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1748 "2022-03-09T11:06:22Z")
WTH with both presidents no one is thinking to stop it,
I always think if these peoples want to fight why don’t they do it in a ring ,
because powerful peoples don’t fight themselves they put innocent peoples
lives in war
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1749 "2022-03-09T11:23:20Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#):
>
> Oryx. They have access to the same social media posts that everyone else does, and probably some more private submissions. It doesn’t matter because they provide links to all of them.
That’s not even an answer to what I asked you. What is their area of expertise? What have they done in the past that makes you believe their collection of photos from the internet is better than anyone else? What makes you think they are a neutral third party? I can link to photos on the internet all day long too. It doesn’t mean I have verified any of the pictures.
> [@GreenWyvern](#):
>
> It’s certainly notable that we haven’t heard anything about Chechen soldiers in Ukraine since then.
Truthfully, I never heard anything about them before this either. IIRC, Chechens weren’t mentioned at all in the early versions of the story. Again, why is there no photographic evidence? Imagine a burning line of 56 Russian tanks surrounded by Ukrainian soldiers holding up flags and cheering. What a giant piece of solidarity and hope to show all Ukrainians and their backers worldwide. And what a propaganda piece to get out to Russians back home. The mighty Russian army brought to a standstill. No way that this wasn’t all over the internet the day it happened.
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### Author:  [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1750 "2022-03-09T11:25:00Z")
(redact)
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### Author:  [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1751 "2022-03-09T11:28:58Z")
It sounds like China is having a bit of a change of heart about their BFF Russia. The tide may be changing. I desperately hope so.
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1752 "2022-03-09T11:29:08Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> Chechens weren’t mentioned at all in the early versions of the story.
Actually they were. They were mentioned several days before the claim that they were wiped out.
Feb 25:
> **[Chechen 'hunters' unleashed to detain - or kill - Kyiv officials](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10551327/Chechen-special-forces-hunters-unleashed-Ukraine-detain-kill-Kyiv-officials.html)**
>
> A squad of Chechen special forces 'hunters' (pictured) has been unleashed in Ukraine to detain or kill a set of specific Ukrainian officials.
Feb 26:
> **[Chechen leader, a Putin ally, says his forces deployed to Ukraine](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/26/putins-chechen-ally-says-forces-deployed-ukraine-to-back-russia)**
>
> Kadyrov says Chechen units had so far suffered no losses and Russian forces took large Ukrainian cities including Kyiv.
Feb 26:
> **[Russia Tries to Terrorize Ukraine With Images of Chechen Soldiers](https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/02/26/russia-chechen-propaganda-ukraine/)**
>
> Moscow is exploiting stereotypes of Chechen brutality.
> The journalist Neil Hauer reported that Chechens may have landed at the Antonov airport, west of Kyiv. Images have emerged of special forces raising the Chechen flag in the nearby town of Hostomel. Armored personnel carriers emblazoned with the white letter V—in contrast to Russian vehicles, which carry a Z—were seen racing down roads consistent with the surrounding area. Video of Chechen fighters perusing weapons and vehicles in a captured Ukrainian supply depot, from Saturday, were shared widely.
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### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1753 "2022-03-09T11:31:39Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> So, Russia has responded by calling home all its planes, rental arrangements be damned. The airplane leasing companies are taking a bath as their assets are flying off to Russia. Aercap in Ireland, the company that has the most planes leased to Russian companies, has lost 25% of its market value.
that is a typical “_pan para hoy, hambre para mañana_” move … IOW a short-term win, long term lose proposition
as it **will exclude all future airlines under russian authority from the commercial leasing marke** t .
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### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1754 "2022-03-09T11:33:28Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#):
>
> Sorry to interrupt guys, but can we please keep American party politics out of this thread?
+1
please???
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1755 "2022-03-09T11:48:40Z")
Russian economic collapse is getting closer.
> **[Fitch Sees ‘Imminent’ Russian Default as It Downgrades Again](https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-03-08/card/fitch-sees-imminent-russian-default-as-it-downgrades-again-YlyD4VdcSKi7dCdYkdDu)**
>
> Fitch Ratings cut its credit ratings on Russia further into junk territory and warned that Moscow was likely to default on its debts shortly.
> The ratings company slashed its rating on Russia by six notches to a single-C grade, near the bottom of its...
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### Author:  [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1756 "2022-03-09T12:21:59Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#):
>
> Russian economic collapse is getting closer.
It’s not like holders of Russian government bonds have any recourse. Putin will just tell them to pound sand, just like the aircraft leasing companies were told. If Russia defaults on their loans, does it really make a practical difference?
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### Author:  [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1757 "2022-03-09T12:46:18Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> That would explain it. I’m still not sure what good it does to steal all the aircraft. From what I understand Russia farms out all it’s maintenance to other countries. Aircraft need a lot of maintenance, old aircraft need even more. Depending how this war goes they could all end up rusting in a hanger in Siberia.
Seems to be just one more step in the most comprehensive foot-shooting in all of history.
Even if Putin prevails militarily in Ukraine, he’s screwed Russia so badly in just about every other respect that they’ll never recover from this. Just one long slide into irrelevancy. North Korea writ large.
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1758 "2022-03-09T12:50:03Z")
“Never” is a long time, and Russia will undoubtedly continue to sell its primary export - misinformation and trollery - for a long time. The standard of living may plummet within Russia, but they can still go on making the rest of the world a shittier place for fun and profit.
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### Author:  [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1759 "2022-03-09T12:50:35Z")
> [@michaelfrey288](#):
>
> WTH with both presidents no one is thinking to stop it,
The fundamental problem is, it takes two sides to keep the peace, but only one to break it. Putin wanted this war, and literally no one else. Had he kept his forces on his side of the line, neither Ukraine not NATO would have ever done anything like this.
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### Author:  [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2022, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/1760 "2022-03-09T13:01:12Z")
He could even try going full on good guy.
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