# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/161 "2022-02-25T19:18:40Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > To some extent, building fortifications is just a matter of slopping down some concrete but I would expect that you really need at least a good decade to properly get things into place, systems set up, and all the kinks worked out. You aren’t building the Maginot line. Mine the main avenues of approach to likely and have artillery guns laid on them. Build strongpoints overlooking them, with mutual support and interlocking fields of fire. Make the enemy work and bleed to advance. If you have a longer time, a few years for instance, canals are excellent as basis for defense lines against mechanised forces and can also help with irrigation. [See BRB Canal which protects Lahore from India.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bambawali-Ravi-Bedian_Canal) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/162 "2022-02-25T19:19:28Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Well…honestly Ukraine [DOES have a serious problem with far right trash](https://www.newstatesman.com/international-content/2022/02/silence-wont-make-the-ukrainian-far-right-go-away). It’s absolutely not an invitation to invade, but it is a carefully targeted bit of overheated rhetoric referring to a real issue. The US has far-right trash. Russia has far-right trash. It’s a real _phenomenon_, but it is not a real _issue_ in the context of Russian national security. It’s irresponsible to amplify this kind of message, even as speculative devil’s advocacy. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/163 "2022-02-25T19:32:59Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Of course, nothing close to a reliable source that that ever happened. I find the accidental leak unlikely. There will be no cites. Twitter and Reddit are alight with the fever dreams of people who seem really excited about seeing a Chinese hand in the current crisis. Though China, like the US, is unquestionably a global power with a finger in every pie, they’ve been clear that Ukraine is a regional conflict with no upside for them. The information space is bonkers right now. A rule I’m following for myself is the more I want a news story to be true, the harder I look at it before hitting ‘forward’. I myself have already swallowed the bait on a few false stories, but glad to say I didn’t forward them. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/164 "2022-02-25T19:34:27Z")
What about it do you find implausible? I mean, that seems pretty standard stuff for the CCPs state-run media. That doesn’t mean this is real, though I think it was the Washington Post who broke this story so they probably didn’t make it up out of whole clothe, from a plausibility perspective, this seems exactly what they would do and say. Just curious what it is about it that makes you say it’s unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/165 "2022-02-25T19:39:53Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > They’ll leave behind a puppet government That’ll last for about fifteen minutes. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/166 "2022-02-25T19:45:14Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > You aren’t building the Maginot line. Mine the main avenues of approach to likely and have artillery guns laid on them. Build strongpoints overlooking them, with mutual support and interlocking fields of fire. Make the enemy work and bleed to advance. Great idea if the war is limited to the ground. Less effective if your enemy can call in airstrikes. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/167 "2022-02-25T19:48:45Z")
> [@XT](#): > > What about it do you find implausible? I mean, that seems pretty standard stuff for the CCPs state-run media. That doesn’t mean this is real, though I think it was the Washington Post who broke this story so they probably didn’t make it up out of whole clothe, from a plausibility perspective, this seems exactly what they would do and say. Just curious what it is about it that makes you say it’s unlikely. I wouldn’t be surprised that Chinese state media sends out guidelines on how to cover a story. I would be highly doubtful, though, that they would give a reason for that guideline, and even less that the reason would include classified secrets. Likewise, @iiandyiiii 's post giving the US government’s update on the state of the war is likely untrustworthy: > [@Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine/960037/158): > > According to the Pentagon, “\*Russia has not yet established air superiority. \*Russia has not yet taken any population centers. \*There are indications of an amphibious assault to the west of Mariupol, a city on the Black Sea. \*Roughly ⅓ of the Russian troops previously amassed along Ukraine’s border are now in the country. \*Russian momentum in this “initial phase” has slowed, but this may change. \*Russia is not moving as quickly on Kyiv as expected. \*Ukrainian command and control is intact… Personally, I didn’t object to either since the US government is on the same side as I am, and I’m fine to let their information war go unimpeded. But, realistically, you would need to try and find a disinterested party to get any real updates. Indian newspapers and Aljazeera are probably the best places to go, if you want the real status on anything. But in terms of what you post, I’d say that it’s okay to quote one thing and believe another. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/168 "2022-02-25T19:54:06Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > > [@RickJay](#): > > > > They’ll leave behind a puppet government > > That’ll last for about fifteen minutes. Especially since Putin has pretty much de-Russiafied Ukraine by peeling off Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/169 "2022-02-25T19:56:44Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised that Chinese state media sends out guidelines on how to cover a story. I would be highly doubtful, though, that they would give a reason for that guideline, and even less that the reason would include classified secrets. Not sure what would be classified or secret in there, except perhaps the part about China needing Russia down the road for help with Taiwan. I pretty much tuned that part out, as it seemed speculative, and since the Washington Post article is behind a paywall I only have other websites who are repeating it, not the actual story to go by. As I said, this seems pretty standard stuff for China’s state-run media, and it’s not like they don’t have a history of this sort of telling the media what spin they require. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/170 "2022-02-25T19:59:04Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Likewise, @iiandyiiii 's post giving the US government’s update on the state of the war is likely untrustworthy: So far, the information coming out of the US government about the status of the invading forces as proven pretty reliable. Things change, but so far the strategy seems to be to publicize every move Russian forces make or are highly likely to make. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/171 "2022-02-25T20:07:53Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > The US has far-right trash. Russia has far-right trash. Ukraine has far-right trash with an officially-recognized military unit. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > It’s a real _phenomenon_ , but it is not a real _issue_ in the context of Russian national security. 100% agreed. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > It’s irresponsible to amplify this kind of message, even as speculative devil’s advocacy. Really hope you’re not referring to me here. Or even the author of that opinion piece - he’s pretty careful about his wording. Myself, I wasn’t amplifying shit. I was explaining in the face of speculation why Putin is using the specific rhetoric he is. Being aware of facts is not apologism. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/172 "2022-02-25T20:15:42Z")
Because it sounds exactly like something that was repeated on Twitter from someone on Facebook and then regurgitated here. Or any other such line of doubt. Do you actually have a credible source? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/173 "2022-02-25T20:19:53Z")
As I said, the article is originally from the Washington Post. Is that a credible source? No idea. But several other newsgroups have picked it up. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/174 "2022-02-25T20:24:47Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > So far, the information coming out of the US government about the status of the invading forces as proven pretty reliable. Things change, but so far the strategy seems to be to publicize every move Russian forces make or are highly likely to make. That was previous to the invasion. We’re now in a new period. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/175 "2022-02-25T20:26:50Z")
Actually, you didn’t mention the Washington Post in the initial post. Any link? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/176 "2022-02-25T20:29:31Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > That was previous to the invasion. We’re now in a new period. What makes it more likely the Pentagon would lie now? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/177 "2022-02-25T20:29:36Z")
Yeah, I did…several times. But sure (it’s behind a paywall which I don’t have access to), [here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/22/china-russia-ukraine-reaction/). You can also google it and get 2nd hand accounts of the story, but I don’t know how credible any of them are either. It’s not a Twitter/Facebook made up story though, afaict. ETA, [here](https://news.yahoo.com/chinese-news-outlet-accidentally-leaked-211350671.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIwr3CRVCoVhR3emEr_IgTCVXkSOpz9WH_mxisF3kXPLXBSlLDSmCrR_wX2OJj1c_K-3rXh6HIPbSeU3-b71zMIT6SQAsW170A0ByQQ8CaulAfpnCqYTdgOKTkG0J3Vbn-2nBt5aToZJmIdUUGL5hVBDf335ov7GdYjywte6Kfrm) is one from Yahoo!news (again, no idea how credible). I’ll just quote the title: > [@](#): > > # A Chinese news outlet accidentally leaked its own censorship instructions on Russia-Ukraine coverage: report ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/178 "2022-02-25T20:34:55Z")
I just read the Post article and it doesn’t really say that at all. One commentator said something like you posted, nothing from the Government of China. As to the Yahoo!News one, it does appear to be a mangled repetition of something carried by Tweat from a blogger. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/179 "2022-02-25T20:37:00Z")
Can you quote some of it? I don’t have access to the story. BTW, I never said the Chinese government…I said the CCPs state-run media. Sure, those are the same thing, but news media such as the Washington Post might not be making that distinction. I’m curious how mangled the stories I can actually see are. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/180 "2022-02-25T20:38:12Z")
I think this falls within fair use: > Local commentators stressed the balance their country has to strike. “Simply put, China has to back Russia up with emotional and moral support while refraining from treading on the toes of the United States and European Union,” [Ming Jinwei](https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/SEBdF_Ty3oMT5n7v8E4J1Q), a popular commentator and senior editor at Xinhua News Agency wrote Tuesday in his WeChat blog. > It doesn’t hurt to be moderately pro-Russian in words, he added, because in the longer run, Beijing is trying to get Russian support on Taiwan. “In the future, China will also need Russia’s understanding and support when wrestling with America to solve the Taiwan issue once and for all,” he wrote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=10)