# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 6986
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6986 "2022-08-05T10:49:30Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > I am not championing Russia. Yes, you are. (More on that later) > [@Kedikat](#): > > This is a terrible war. A waste of life and destruction. I include this as something we all in fact agree upon. > [@Kedikat](#): > > I personally think Russia could have been a bit more patient regarding negotiating about NATO membership and even pressing more diplomatically over actually enforcing the Minsk agreement. 1. Russia has zero right to say who does and does not join NATO 2. The “Minsk agreement” was only ever worth the paper it was written on. In case that’s not clear, it was a verbal agreement - no paper, no actual agreement. 3. The Russian government is certainly allowed an opinion about what other nations do, but that does not extend to imposing their opinion on other, sovereign nations > [@Kedikat](#): > > If that failed. I would have hoped Russia would have only fully mobilized into only into the Donbass areas that had declared independence. And this is where you champion Russia In 1992 Ukraine signed the Lisbon Protocol - unlike the Minsk agreement this was a real agreement on real paper - as did the Russian Federation. Ukraine also joined the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty as a non-nuclear state. As part of all this Ukraine sent all of its nuclear weapons to the Russia Federation in return for the RF pledging to respect is borders and sovereignity. Which Russia very clearly has not done. The Donbas areas have not, in fact, declared independence. The Russian Parliament declared they were independent, but that’s like the UK declaring Normandy, France is an “independent” state and stating they’re going to invade to protect it from the evil French government. > [@Kedikat](#): > > Nations have their security concerns. All through history a nation will go to war when those concerns are pressed far enough. Ukraine was ZERO threat to the Russia Federation. Aside from being smaller, poorer, and having a smaller military, it had surrendered its nuclear capability in return for a promise for its borders to be respected. NATO is not a threat to Russia (except in the mind of some Russians who, regrettably, seem to be in charge there). Don’t want NATO to fight you? Don’t attack a NATO member. The only thing NATO was a threat to here was Russia ambition to conquer a weaker neighbor. Russia started this war, full stop. It is entirely the fault of Russia, no one else. > [@Kedikat](#): > > I wish that there would be an immediate ceasefire. Which could easily happen if Russia just stopped shooting at Ukraine. They started this war, they could end it. > [@Kedikat](#): > > The Donbass areas be granted independence. Why? Because the Kremlin wants that? Again, no one declared it “independent” other than the Russian Parliament, who should have zero say on what slicing up a sovereign neighbor. > [@Kedikat](#): > > Crimea hold another referendum to ensure it be validated internationally. Again, here are you championing Russia 1. Crimea was given to Ukraine during the breakup up the USSR and was part of Ukraine, and should have been left Ukrainian by Russia as everyone agreed to in 1992. 2. It is well known that Russia interfered with Crimea in 2014 and were the source of the “little green men” that lead to it breaking away. 3. No referendum of the actual Crimeans was held until AFTER the Russians took over. > [@Kedikat](#): > > Ukraine and Russia sign a nonaggression pact. They did so. In the early 1990’s. Which was been violated ONLY by Russia. Why don’t you want to hold Russia to what Russia agreed to? Which is why everyone and their brother anywhere near the Russia border is now running to join NATO, because clearly Russia regards “agreements”, “pacts”, and “treaties” as toilet paper. > [@Kedikat](#): > > The Donbass and Crimea regions become a free trade zone between West and East. The Donbas and Crimea are part of Ukraine and no one should be slicing them off. What next? You want to slice Montana and California off the US? Remove Cornwall from the UK? Perhaps pull Bavaria out of Germany or declare Burgundy independent of French oppression? > [@Kedikat](#): > > Ukraine nation be neutral Ukraine WAS neutral. Very, very carefully neutral. And look what happened to them. No one in their right mind is going to remain neutral in the face of Russian aggression. That is why oh-so-very-very neutral Finland is now joining NATO. You are very much a champion of Russian interests here. I disagree with you even as I uphold your right to disagree (a right people in Russia no longer have, as even calling the war a war gets you a prison sentence these days). I would prefer that you be _honest_ about your opinion and which side you’re on - the Russian side. --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037)._