# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 104
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2077 "2023-02-07T14:29:14Z")
Russian morale doesn’t appear to be doing great: > **[Ukraine releases video appearing to show Russian troops beating own wounded...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/07/ukraine-releases-video-appearing-to-show-russian-troops-beating-own-wounded-officer)** > > Footage thought to show Wagner group fighters beating commander with what appear to be shovelsWarning: video contains footage that some viewers may find distressing ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2078 "2023-02-07T14:58:28Z")
Major-General Dmitry Ulyanov came out of retirement and died in Ukraine. Article says he was targeted by Ukrainian forces. > **[Another blow for Putin after 10th senior commander killed fighting in Ukraine](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/another-blow-for-putin-after-10th-senior-commander-killed-fighting-in-ukraine/ar-AA17cWos)** > > Major-General Dmitry Ulyanov is the tenth Russian general to meet their demise in Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2079 "2023-02-07T16:12:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Russian morale doesn’t appear to be doing great: > > [Ukraine releases video appearing to show Russian troops beating own wounded officer | Ukraine | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/07/ukraine-releases-video-appearing-to-show-russian-troops-beating-own-wounded-officer) What are the indications cited that the victim was the perpetrators‘ commander? ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2080 "2023-02-07T16:36:03Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > What are the indications cited that the victim was the perpetrators‘ commander? Yeah, for all we know that was a Ukrainian POW that they tortured and then beat to death. From the video quality, I couldn’t even guess that they were Russian, Ukrainian or Plutonian, much less that the one was a Wagner officer. > [@aceplace57](#): > > Major-General Dmitry Ulyanov came out of retirement and died in Ukraine. Gee, that’s too bad. Breaks my heart. I wonder if “sabotage forces” are regular military. Haven’t heard that one before. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2081 "2023-02-07T17:12:30Z")
Leopard 1 tanks for Ukraine: > ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2082 "2023-02-07T17:17:48Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > What are the indications cited that the victim was the perpetrators‘ commander? Also, the editing of the video makes it pretty hard to see what the hell is going on, or if it’s even the same guys. We go from 4 guys carrying a fifth, to two guys behind a wall, obviously hitting _something_, but because it’s behind a wall, we have no idea what. Also, the buildings in each clip look very different. I couldn’t spot anything that clearly indicated this all happened in the same area. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2083 "2023-02-07T17:39:17Z")
This is all very typical of video coming out of Ukraine, especially on social media. I’ve been reluctant to watch any of that video, much as I’d like to, because there’s just no way to know what any of it is. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2084 "2023-02-07T18:57:03Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Leopard 1 tanks for Ukraine: > > [https://twitter.com/business/status/1623005565071896589](https://twitter.com/business/status/1623005565071896589) That’s a big number. I wonder if the quote about maintenance is in reference to being able to supply sufficient equipment for the tanks or getting the actual tanks up and running. > [@tofor](#): > > This is all very typical of video coming out of Ukraine, especially on social media. There’s been a lot of crappy or outright false videos making the rounds. This one falls into the crappy category. Poor quality video, editing, no details supplied. Could be anyone, anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2085 "2023-02-09T10:53:05Z")
To those countries I say: talk is cheap. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2086 "2023-02-09T13:50:12Z")
New Russian maps: > Wagner Group to stop recruiting prisoners: > Russian ultranationalist Igor Girkin reacts to Wagner news: > ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2087 "2023-02-09T13:50:51Z")
Zelensky has been touring Europe waggling his eyebrows and pouting suggestively at European fighter jets. Yesterday he visited the UK parliament and King Charles before going to Paris, today he was at the EU. Difficult to see how fighter jets can be delivered unless there’s an acceptance that this war is going to be set in for numerous years, because it’s a very long term commitment. I wouldn’t be surprised if the UK might gift something with a view to making Ukraine a spiky porcupine that Russia won’t dare to attack again in the future. > **[Ukraine war: Zelensky takes fighter jet bid to EU leaders](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64577375)** > > After convincing the West to supply tanks, Ukraine's president is now on a mission to get aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2088 "2023-02-09T14:05:33Z")
Russia rewrites the history of WWII: > > > ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2089 "2023-02-09T14:17:13Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Russia rewrites the history of WWII: Wow, that’s real ‘Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia’ kinda stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Kelevra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/97f17d/32.png) [@Kelevra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelevra)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2090 "2023-02-09T15:11:22Z")
Looks like Russia attempted an attack on Vuhledar with devastating consequences. That’s an incredible amount of losses for no purpose. > ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2091 "2023-02-09T15:35:00Z")
At least Vuhledar is a location worth attacking. It’s the area where the combat lines are closest to the only rail line west from the Donbas into the southern Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions. Currently that rail line is unusable for the Russians because it’s under Ukrainian fire control, which leaves the Kerch Bridge as the only rail connection to Crimea & southern Kherson and Zaporizhzhia. There are some roads further south along the coast, but they’re not in great shape and anyways the Russians rely very heavily on rail transport for logistics. So pushing the Ukrainians back several km in the vicinity of Vuhledar would be hugely advantageous for Russian logistics, unlike the incremental gains they’ve been achieving around Bahkmut, which are almost entirely pointless in terms of furthering the larger strategic goals of Russia. Fortunately the local geography is more favourable for the defenders around Vuhledar and it’s unlikely to be taken barring the Russians breaking through the lines elsewhere and achieving an encirclement. The level of destruction in the videos coming out of Vuhledar over the past couple days suggests that’s not terribly likely. I don’t think I’ve seen that many burned out armoured vehicles since that failed attempted river crossing last year. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2092 "2023-02-09T16:20:17Z")
> [@Kelevra](#): > > Looks like Russia attempted an attack on Vuhledar with devastating consequences. That’s an incredible amount of losses for no purpose. That remains to be determined. We don’t know what sort of losses Ukraine sustained in the process. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2093 "2023-02-09T17:48:34Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > We don’t know what sort of losses Ukraine sustained in the process. We also don’t know how much territory the Russians gained. Russia is using scorched-earth tactics.Their artillery sits 20 kilometers back and flattens every building within range. If the battle at Vuhledar gained them 3 kilometers of territory , they can bring their artillery . 3 kilometers closer , and devastate another line of Ukranian defense. > [@Kelevra](#): > > That’s an incredible amount of losses for no purpose. For us westerners, yeah. But not for Putin and the Wagner criminals. The loss of 31 vehicles - with a couple hundred men inside them- is no problem. As long as there are zero losses of artillery pieces, the scorched earth tactics will continue until Russia wins the war. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2094 "2023-02-09T18:58:33Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > If the battle at Vuhledar gained them 3 kilometers of territory , they can bring their artillery . 3 kilometers closer , and devastate another line of Ukranian defense. The good news is this strategy applied broadly is unsustainable by Russia, or anyone else for that matter. There aren’t enough shells in the world to advance through Ukraine to victory in this manner. There was a peak time last summer where Russia was estimated to be expending 60,000 artillery rounds _per day_. Those days have already passed and we have solid intel that Russia has been reduced to getting artillery shells now from North Korea to supplement their own (inadequate) production. In addition, Ukraine - in cooperation with western intelligence gathering - has managed to interdict a lot of artillery shells before they ever reach Russian guns, courtesy of HIMARS and other long range artillery. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2095 "2023-02-09T21:05:05Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > There was a peak time last summer where Russia was estimated to be expending 60,000 artillery rounds _per day_. Chicken feed. Before launching the attack at [Verdun](https://www.history.com/news/10-things-you-may-not-know-about-the-battle-of-verdun), the Germans expended _2-million_ shells and then another half-million during the battle. In the earlier stages of the war a few tens of thousands of shells would precede an attack, the strategists thinking that was plenty to demoralize the enemy and break his stuff. Since time after time this turned out to not the case, the number of shells steadily increased as the war progressed. On the first day of [The Somme](https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/battle-somme), launched to relieve the French Army at Verdun. the British army expended 1.5-million shells. Even plain ol’ tube artillery is more efficient now than it was a hundred years ago, but not such that 1% suffices. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2096 "2023-02-09T23:36:08Z")
It’s not chicken feed if it’s unsustainable (and it is) for Russia to expend it at that rate. Verdun is completely unrelated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=103) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=105)