# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 116
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2023, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2319 "2023-02-20T11:43:54Z")
Remarkable! So happy to read about Biden’s visit – what a great show of support! ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2023, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2320 "2023-02-20T12:55:56Z")
Tucker is going to be furious. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2023, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2321 "2023-02-20T13:41:41Z")
Wow, the POTUS goes into an active war zone that isn’t under US control. That’s impressive. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2322 "2023-02-20T15:01:17Z")
I’m impressed Air Force 1 made the trip. It’s anti missile defense must be very reliable. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2023, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2323 "2023-02-20T15:03:22Z")
Thread specifically on the visit is here: > [@Biden surprise — a visit to Kyiv {2023-02-20}](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-surprise-a-visit-to-kyiv-2023-02-20/980086/1): > > This should get you past the WSJ paywall… hopefully: ---
**Author:** ![Ssounder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@Ssounder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ssounder)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2023, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2324 "2023-02-20T15:07:42Z")
[President Zelenskyy’s Twitter](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1627631915263004672?cxt=HHwWgMC45c6mwZYtAAAA) Very moving post. At 1:35 focus on Zelenskyy. As Biden is shaking hands with Ukrainian officials, it looks like he’s welling up in emotion as he wipes his eye and the camera swings away. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2023, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2325 "2023-02-20T15:30:04Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m impressed Air Force 1 made the trip. It’s anti missile defense must be very reliable. Only as far as Poland. The rest was by train. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2023, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2326 "2023-02-20T15:48:17Z")
Biden’s also not the first national leader to visit Ukraine. A number of European heads of government have already, over the past year. And while this is great for symbolism, and symbols are important, I think I would have liked it better if Biden had driven up in a column of Abrams, and then handed Zelenskyy the keys. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2023, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2327 "2023-02-20T15:49:42Z")
I’d bet I could hear Putin’s rant from here in Arizona. Kind of like how Krakatoa’s _ka-boom_ circled the earth three times. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2023, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2328 "2023-02-20T15:59:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Biden had driven up in a column of Abrams Politicians riding in tanks for photo ops has a bad history, as Mike Dukakis would tell you. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2023, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2329 "2023-02-20T16:00:24Z")
I think private contractors could handle maintenance on the planes. Contractors were used heavily in Iraq. Airfields are always targets in war, but it’s not a direct combat role. High pay could get skilled people to take the jobs and train Ukrainians. The Guardian > [@](#): > > The US ambassador to the United Nations indicated on Sunday that the White House could reverse its refusal to supply F-16 jets to [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine). > “We’re still having discussions on the ground with the Ukrainians,” Linda Thomas-Greenfield told CNN’s State of the Union, adding that Washington was working “very closely and directly” with Kyiv to identify “what their needs are and when they need them”. > > As recently as late January, Joe Biden [appeared](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/30/biden-f-16s-ukraine-00080276) to rule out transfers of F-16s. Asked if he would grant Kyiv’s request, the president said: “No.” > > Thomas-Greenfield pointed to previous arms requests, saying “it doesn’t help” if the US supplies weapons systems Ukrainian forces are unable to use and maintain. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2023, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2330 "2023-02-20T16:57:03Z")
[Pro-Russian protests and demonstrations are going on in Moldova.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64700590). The mention of saboteurs sneaking in is worrying. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2023, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2331 "2023-02-20T19:54:34Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Well, bear in mind that artillery and its supply lines are very vulnerable to air attack, but not vice versa. That means that the side with air superiority can make sure that the other side can’t use its artillery. True, but the US usually hasn’t had that problem. We usually get air superiority right from the start. That gives us the luxury of on call artillery much of the time. > [@silenus](#): > > Yeah, but the border between Russia and China is full of nothing and more nothing. It’s not like millions of Siberians are going to march through Mongolia, headed for Beijing. European Russia could totally devolve into chaos without affecting China one iota. Too many -stans in the way. In fact, chaos in Russia _might_ even be better for China than war between Ukraine/NATO and Russia. I agree with all of this. China would like to see Russia in chaos. If you think they are getting cheap oil now, wait until the Russian government falls and oil production is in the hands of some warlords/oligarchs. > [@Alessan](#): > > And the consequences of that, are…? Nothing? > [@Tamerlane](#): > > Who has an agenda. Not a bad or wrong agenda necessarily, but an agenda. As I’ve mentioned before these people are generally media savvy. If he can panic the public (or just certain officials) into putting pressure on stubborn or inertia-bound governments to speed up munitions deliveries via raiding strategic stockpiles, well…that accomplishes a task he probably wants accomplished. That’s the money quote. They have an endgame of getting munitions to Ukraine, this is part of it. > [@Gorsnak](#): > > Remember kids, passing on the right is dangerous! > > [https://twitter.com/Euan\_MacDonald/status/1627318544928063488](https://twitter.com/Euan_MacDonald/status/1627318544928063488) Those wacky Ukrainians! I like how the van going the opposite direction has absolutely no reaction to the helos. “Ho-hum, just another day in a war zone.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2332 "2023-02-20T20:02:00Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > [https://twitter.com/Euan\_MacDonald/status/1627318544928063488](https://twitter.com/Euan_MacDonald/status/1627318544928063488) Aircraft pass to the right. 😉 **FAR 91.113(F)** _ **Overtaking**._ Each aircraft that is being overtaken has the right-of-way and each pilot of an overtaking aircraft shall alter course to the right to pass well clear. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2023, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2333 "2023-02-20T20:24:00Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Wow, the POTUS goes into an active war zone that isn’t under US control. That’s impressive. I mean, there was zero chance a single missile would hit Kyiv while Biden was there. The Russians don’t want to fight a war with the United States, either, and killing the President would be a clear casus belli. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2334 "2023-02-21T04:27:19Z")
Latest US aid package #32 20 Feb 2023 Today, the Department of Defense (DoD) announces the authorization of a Presidential Drawdown of security assistance to meet Ukraine’s critical security and defense needs. This authorization includes more ammunition for U.S.-provided HIMARS and Howitzers that Ukraine is using to defend their country as well as more Javelins, anti-armor systems, and air surveillance radars. This is the Biden Administration’s thirty-second drawdown of equipment from DoD inventories for Ukraine since August 2021 and it is valued at up to $460 million. - Additional ammunition for High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS); no indication of which warhead; unitary or billion BB. - Additional 155mm artillery rounds; not specified; HE, HERA, RAAM or a mix. - Additional 120mm mortar rounds; HE and/or Illum. - Four air surveillance radars; - Additional Javelin anti-armor systems; - Approximately 2,000 anti-armor rockets; AT4 or latest LAW. - Four Bradley Infantry Fire Support Team vehicles; - Two tactical vehicles to recover equipment; - Claymore anti-personnel munitions; - Demolition munitions; - Night vision devices; - Tactical secure communications systems; - Medical supplies; - Spare parts and other field equipment. and some aviator sunglasses left behind. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2335 "2023-02-21T13:25:56Z")
So Putin just suspended the START Treaty. Good. Let Russia waste money it doesn’t have on more nukes it won’t use. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2336 "2023-02-21T13:26:18Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > Additional ammunition […] I feel uneasy when I see “additional” instead of a number attached to the munitions. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2337 "2023-02-21T13:32:07Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I feel uneasy when I see “additional” instead of a number attached to the munitions. I hear what you’re saying. “Additional” could mean a few hundred shells. But from an opsec standpoint, wouldn’t you rather it be something vague as opposed to announcing 37,320 shells so the Russians know precisely how many Ukr is getting? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2338 "2023-02-21T13:33:10Z")
I thought we used to get those specific numbers, particularly for the himars ammo. If they always obfuscated like this, then yeah, all good. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=115) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=117)