# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 129
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2613 "2023-03-03T16:34:33Z")
I hope the West provides Ukraine with some armored bulldozers. From the Gulf War: > [@](#): > > The “Saddam Line” was Iraq’s first line of defense, a series of trenches (some filled with oil to be ignited), sand berms, trench works, anti-tank ditches, barbed wire and mine fields. It was all that was keeping the coalition allies out of Kuwait. The attack to liberate Kuwait began at 4 a.m. local time, and the Saddam Line of trenches was the first stop along the way. > > By 6:45 a.m., the allies had broken the Saddam Line and were deep inside Kuwaiti territory. > > The secret to their success was nothing they had to work with in World War I. There were no bayonets, no trench brooms and no chemical warfare (at least, not from the Americans). The U.S. 1st Infantry Division (Mechanized) instead used minesweeping plows mounted on tanks along with “combat earthmovers” in what soon became known as the “bulldozer assault.” > > Rather than clear the trenches man by man, the Americans simply plowed through the Iraqis on combat earthmovers, even burying some defenders alive as they tried in vain to shoot the bulldozers. > > “For all I know, we could have killed thousands,” Col. Anthony Moreno, commander of the brigade that led the assault, told The Seattle Times. “I came through right after the lead company. What you saw was a bunch of buried trenches with people’s arms and things sticking out of them.” > **[The 'Bulldozer Assault' of Desert Storm Saw the US Army Opt Out of Trench...](https://www.military.com/history/bulldozer-assault-of-desert-storm-saw-us-army-opt-out-of-trench-warfare.html)** > > Just because the enemy creates a World War I-style defense doesn't mean you have to attack them that way. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2614 "2023-03-03T17:13:32Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > The damage inflicted by the later attack doesn’t seem to have been extensive judging from released satellite photos, probably because purportedly only 0.4 lbs of TNT was used. Now I’m confused. I thought the pictures of the downed drone, the UJ-22, was the type that attacked the A-50. That should have blown apart that radar. If the drone/payload was as small as you say, it’s no wonder there was such little damage. Especially if it wasn’t a directional charge. I’ll have to go back and re-read the reports. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2615 "2023-03-03T17:42:22Z")
At the G20 in New Delhi, Lavrov talks about “the war which we are trying to stop and which was launched against us”. The audience laughs derisively. > ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2616 "2023-03-03T19:54:59Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Lavrov talks about “the war which we are trying to stop and which was launched against us”. The audience laughs derisively. Slightly altered by me, I think this quote is appropriate. > “Until this moment, Minister, I think I never really gauged your cruelty or your recklessness…You have done enough. Have you no sense of decency?” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2617 "2023-03-03T20:05:06Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > “For all I know, we could have killed thousands,” Col. Anthony Moreno, commander of the brigade that led the assault, told The Seattle Times. “I came through right after the lead company. What you saw was a bunch of buried trenches with people’s arms and things sticking out of them.” That is absolutely horrifying and also… logically efficient. But then, that’s war, isn’t it? When you break things and kill people. Much has been made of comparing Putin to Hitler, but there are also parallels with Iraq’s attempt to swallow Kuwait. I sometimes think Putin thought he could take Ukraine the way the Americans/Allies took Iraq during Desert Storm. If he did, recent history shows that no, he could not do that. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2618 "2023-03-03T20:33:46Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > Now I’m confused. I thought the pictures of the downed drone, the UJ-22, was the type that attacked the A-50. That should have blown apart that radar. If the drone/payload was as small as you say, it’s no wonder there was such little damage. Especially if it wasn’t a directional charge. I’ll have to go back and re-read the reports. The UJ-22 is a different much large drone with a range measured in hundreds of km/miles. The drone making the video and the ones that did the attack on the plane were very small consumer drones (little quadcopters) with short range and small payload. They were controlled by local partisans/Ukrainian special forces. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2619 "2023-03-03T20:43:34Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > The drone making the video and the ones that did the attack on the plane were very small consumer drones (little quadcopters) with short range and small payload. Thanks for saving me the time going back! They would have had to have excellent placement to do any serious damage with a payload that small. Can you imagine the disappointment in getting a shot at a target like that and coming away empty? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2620 "2023-03-03T20:52:02Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > They were controlled by local partisans/Ukrainian special forces. From what I’ve read the attack on the A-50 was claimed by a Belarusian opposition group. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2621 "2023-03-03T22:39:07Z")
Here’s more video of other surveillance of the airfield from right outside the fence by drones. At least one of the A-50s was badly inoperative before the drone observed the aircraft. A still shows windows missing and snow in the cockpit along with a plywood board on another window. > **[Video Of Another Drone Landing On Russian A-50 Radar Jet In Belarus Emerges](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/video-of-another-drone-landing-on-russian-a-50-radar-jet-in-belarus-emerges)** > > The latest drone video from the claimed partisan attack on a Russian radar plane highlights the vulnerability of its Belarusian airfield. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2622 "2023-03-04T00:07:52Z")
Latest aid package (drawdown of existing stocks) light on details. This military assistance package includes more ammunition for U.S.-provided HIMARS and howitzers, which Ukraine is using so effectively to defend itself, as well as ammunition for Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles, Armored Vehicle Launched Bridges, demolitions munitions and equipment, and other maintenance, training, and support. > **[Additional U.S. Military Assistance for Ukraine - United States Department of...](https://www.state.gov/additional-u-s-military-assistance-for-ukraine/#:~:text=This%20military%20assistance%20package%20includes,%2C%20and%20other%20maintenance%2C%20training%2C)** > > This week, as Russia’s war of aggression against Ukraine continues at great cost, we are again reminded of the boundless courage and steadfast resolve of the people of Ukraine as well as the strong support for Ukraine in the international community.... So more detail from me: HIMARS guided missiles 105mm and 155mm howitzer ammo 25mm ammo for the Bradley IFVs; M791 AP and or M792 HEI-T Armored bridge launching vehicles based on M60 tanks. Used to cross trenches, small streams, obstacles. etc… more in depth here: [Former M60 Tanks Fitted With Folding Bridges Are Headed For Ukraine](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/former-m60-tanks-fitted-with-folding-bridges-are-headed-for-ukraine) Both Germany and Brits have supplied bridging equipment as well form last year. ---
**Author:** ![Ssounder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@Ssounder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ssounder)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2623 "2023-03-04T00:17:08Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > Armored bridge launching vehicles based on M60 tanks. Used to cross trenches, small streams, obstacles. etc… Those might also come in handy for increased mobility during the rasputitsa (mud season). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2624 "2023-03-04T01:18:37Z")
I’d like to think their missile silos are covered with plywood and filled with snow. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2625 "2023-03-04T01:22:54Z")
How quickly will they arrive? I read a story that the Russkies took out a bridge where Ukraine is attempting to evacuate civilians. ---
**Author:** ![Ssounder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@Ssounder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ssounder)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2626 "2023-03-04T01:38:54Z")
Ukraine will have to decide where to deploy a limited supply of bridges. Whether they choose to use them for humanitarian, or tactical -not sure. I think tactical would be _best use_ given the current conditions on the ground. And a tactical win could (in theory) help the humanitarian situation. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2627 "2023-03-04T02:32:18Z")
but wait - there is more … > > > NOËL 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 @NOELreports for all interested in how a RU military airfield in belarus looks from the “inside” ---
**Author:** ![Ssounder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@Ssounder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ssounder)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2628 "2023-03-04T02:40:23Z")
I’ve seen some speculation that the drone landed on the radome in order to capture it’s exact GPS coordinates. Too bad that the actual attack drone didn’t have the firepower to completely disable the whole jet. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2629 "2023-03-04T02:55:48Z")
That’s good, but I would think the Ukrainians or terrorists or who ever would have used that within hours. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2630 "2023-03-04T03:14:57Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > That’s good, but I would think the Ukrainians or terrorists or who ever would have used that within hours I’m sorry, I’m not following you… _what_ is good? And, _what_ is it that you would think Ukrainians or terrorists or whoever would have used within hours? It’s not clear to me who you are responding to. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2631 "2023-03-04T07:34:39Z")
This war is so different. I used to think liberated cities were free. Like in WWII the allied army fought the Germans and freed Italian and French cities. The German threat was usually over. The fighting never stops in Ukraine. Freed cities get shelled into oblivion. There’s always a threat from artillery and missiles. > **[Ukraine war: Kyiv orders partial evacuation of liberated city](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64833750)** > > Families with children and the disabled people are told to leave Kupiansk in Ukraine's north-east. > [@](#): > > The Institute for the Study of War [said this week](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-2-2023) that Russian forces were continuing “limited ground attacks” north-east of Kupiansk, as well as offensive operations around Kreminna, about 80km south-east. > > Kupiansk - home to an important railway junction - has witnessed fierce fighting since the war began, with Russia taking control in a matter of days, and occupying the city for several months. > > However, in September Ukrainian forces took back control amid a [rapid counter-attack in the country’s north-east](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62860774) that saw almost entire of the Kharkiv region brought under Kyiv’s control ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2632 "2023-03-04T07:47:23Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > WW1 style trenches are still useful on the defensive, but here too, drones are rendering them much less effective, as they can drop a grenade with precision from directly above. And relatively cheaply, too. There was a TV documentary here which showed Ukrainians making a simple home-made (well, with a 3D printer) adaptation to an ordinary hobby drone that dropped a grenade on to, occasionally directly into, a tank. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=128) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=130)