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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/250 "2022-11-04T19:17:31Z")
Sorry about the hijack. I thought breaking news was allowed. It was a pretty shocking development for continuing the war.
I won’t mention M again.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/251 "2022-11-04T19:53:40Z")
The vision of these VIPS making the trip to Kyiv in an old railway car makes me smile.
It’s even better when they come with $400 million.
Refurbish 250 HAWK missiles. I assume they mean upgrade the electronics?
Guardian blog
> [@](#):
>
> ## National security adviser visited Ukraine as Washington announces another $400m in weapons: White House
>
> National security adviser **Jake Sullivan** visited Kyiv on Friday to “underscore the United States’ steadfast support to Ukraine” while announcing a $400 mn infusion in new weapons, including tanks and drones, the White House announced.
>
> “National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan met with Ukrainian president **Volodymyr Zelenskyy** , head of the office of the president **Andriy Yermak** , Minister of Defense Reznikov, and others in Kyiv today to underscore the United States’ steadfast support to Ukraine and its people as they defend their sovereignty and territorial integrity,” national security council spokesperson **Adrienne Watson** said in a statement.
>
> “To that end, Mr Sullivan announced an additional $400m security assistance package, which includes refurbished T-72 tanks, unmanned aerial vehicles, and the refurbishment of 250 HAWK surface to air missiles for eventual transfer to Ukraine. He also affirmed the continued provision of economic and humanitarian assistance, as well as ongoing efforts with partners to hold Russia accountable for its aggression.”
> **[MIM-23 Hawk](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-23_Hawk)**
>
> The Raytheon MIM-23 HAWK ("Homing All the Way Killer") is an American medium-range surface-to-air missile. It was designed to be a much more mobile counterpart to the MIM-14 Nike Hercules, trading off range and altitude capability for a much smaller size and weight. Its low-level performance was greatly improved over Nike through the adoption of new radars and a continuous wave semi-active radar homing guidance system. It entered service with the US Army in 1959.
> In 1971 it underwent a major imp...
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/252 "2022-11-04T20:07:49Z")
**Just to clarify, your post was fine, you introduced a news items completely relevant to the thread.**
My post was due to the fact, that every time the M-name is mentioned in these threads, it turns into a hijack. I was cutting that off ahead of time.
So news items that are relevant to the invasion are fine even concerning Musk, but going off on another Musk debate are not allowed.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/253 "2022-11-04T20:20:31Z")
Thank you @What_Exit
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2022, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/254 "2022-11-04T21:18:22Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Refurbish 250 HAWK missiles. I assume they mean upgrade the electronics
Could be as simple as inspecting and replacing “expired” solid propellant or explosives. Test and repair electronics (but not necessarily upgrade if they’re already at the newest revision for the version of the weapon). Maybe even repaint and re-mark.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2022, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/255 "2022-11-04T21:22:42Z")
The HAWK is pretty old. It’ll still blow up stuff and keep the Russians running.
> [@](#):
>
> Hawk was superseded by the [MIM-104 Patriot](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patriot) in [US Army](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Army) service by 1994. The last US user was the [US Marine Corps](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Marine_Corps), who used theirs until 2002 when they were replaced with the man-portable short-range [FIM-92 Stinger](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger).
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### Author:  [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2022, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/256 "2022-11-04T21:42:06Z")
From working in a cell phone refurbishing shop, I can say that generally what happens with refurbishing is that they look for any flaws in the product, replace or otherwise repair the parts that are bad, then test it as much as reasonable to ensure that it works as new. If they’ve been sitting around a long time, there’s potential issues that parts of them could degrade I guess. It’s not like they could have been lightly used like the phones I dealt with.
Refurbishing phones also involves updating any software, but it generally means keeping the same hardware, or in some situations using a component from another model type that’s interoperable with it, and was salvaged specifically for use in replacements when another item was scrapped.
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### Author:  [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2022, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/257 "2022-11-04T21:45:24Z")
> [@Cardigan](#):
>
> I have the feeling Rus. intends to try to replicate the Ukrainian strategy used in Sieverodonetsk, where the bridges were blown but they continued to supply light infantry holding the city via boats at night and force a house to house battle. This had the effect of making Russians attempting to enter the city take high casualties.
Right, which is why Ukraine will conduct an amphibious operation to cross the river at some remote point and then swing around to trap the Russians waiting on that side before seeking to retake Kherson.
That is of course all pure speculation. But the kind where if you’re right, you’re hailed as brilliant, and if you’re wrong, no one remembers. A trick I learned from an intel officer.
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### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [November 4, 2022, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/258 "2022-11-04T23:03:38Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#):
>
> That is of course all pure speculation. But the kind where if you’re right, you’re hailed as brilliant, and if you’re wrong, no one remembers. A trick I learned from an intel officer.
Nouriel Roubini (economist, nick-named Dr. Doom) has this technique completely mastered … he successfully predicted 18 of the past 3 recessions …
… but he was one of the few that predicted the 2007 sub-prime crisis and hence gained widespread notoriety
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [November 5, 2022, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/259 "2022-11-05T03:30:45Z")
> [@echoreply](#):
>
> The things I’ve read have said that Putin is propping up the oligarchs, not the other way around
He’s made his money by arresting them and taking half their worth.
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [November 5, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/260 "2022-11-05T15:13:48Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#):
>
> Right, which is why Ukraine will conduct an amphibious operation to cross the river at some remote point and then swing around to trap the Russians waiting on that side before seeking to retake Kherson.
Has Ukraine done a full scale amphibious operation during the war? So much going on I can’t think of one. Moving troops is fairly easy, moving vehicles is where the hard part comes in.
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