# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 131
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2653 "2023-03-04T20:04:33Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > since it probably more or less moves, at least some of time You just have to remember not to shut the engine off unless you are close to a working outlet to plug that there orange jump start unit into. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2654 "2023-03-04T21:39:29Z")
Witness the typical Russian solution to jack-in-the-box tank turrets. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2655 "2023-03-04T22:37:55Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > That’s simultaneously the most comical-looking and also the ugliest vehicle I have ever seen. Have you seen the KV2 of WW2? Also a failure. The turret could only rotate on flat ground. They new “tank” kinda looks like it, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2656 "2023-03-05T04:32:48Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > As yet unproven. > > Looks like it might be both top-heavy and rear-heavy, and that’s not to mention the guns. Not to mention, the profile/silhouette screams ‘please paint a bullseye on me’ ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2657 "2023-03-05T04:47:37Z")
I mean, it’s totally ridiculous, but at the same time I wouldn’t care to be on the receiving end of the cannons in that turret. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2658 "2023-03-05T05:18:36Z")
That may not be as heavy as it looks. It’s just a gun mount with a light armor turret. I suspect it’s improvised for placed like Bakhmut where there might not be a tank threat but a lot of small arms fire. Still kind of ridiculous, but have you seen sime of the weird tanks that showed up in WWII? > **[The 'Funny' Tanks of D-Day](https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-funny-tanks-of-d-day)** > > These unusual vehicles played an important role in the D-Day landings, the Battle of Normandy and the campaign in north-west Europe. In early 1943, the 79th Armoured Division under the command of Major-General Sir Percy... ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2659 "2023-03-05T06:05:30Z")
It reminds me a bit of a crappy knockoff of the Israeli NAGMACHON, which are socialized urban warfare vehicles that are basically up-armored and IED-protected Centurion tanks - essentially mobile pillboxes. [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Nagmachon01.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Nagmachon01.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2660 "2023-03-05T10:08:55Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > > > “There are fairly inexpensive means of combating unmanned aerial vehicles that every self-respecting corporation can purchase and put on their facilities,” > > Shotgun? Old lady with a jar of pickles? No, wait, that only works on Russian drones… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2661 "2023-03-05T11:52:57Z")
Phillips O’Brien, a military academic who IMO has been one of the best and most accurate analysts since the war began, argues that who holds Bakhmut is essentially meaningless, and what matters is the cost in lives and equipment each side is expending. And on this measure, Ukraine is winning big even if they ultimately withdraw from the ruins of the city: > **[Weekend Update #18 The End of the Battle of Bakhmut?](https://phillipspobrien.substack.com/p/weekend-update-18-the-end-of-the)** > > What would Nathaniel Greene Say? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2662 "2023-03-05T14:27:47Z")
Ukraine did the same thing in Severodonetsk and Lysychansk. They held it as long as possible and maximized Russia’s losses. Pulled out before the troops were encircled. Wagner’s best fighters & equipment are expended at Bakhmut. That means Ukraine doesn’t have to fight those men at a more strategic area. I keep seeing speculation that Ukraine’s best troops are preparing a Spring counter offensive. I hope that’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2663 "2023-03-05T17:22:32Z")
I didn’t read the tweet but are we sure it’s not a photoshop joke? ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2664 "2023-03-05T17:33:26Z")
Russians [are apparently using shovels in close combat due to a lack of ammunition.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64855760). ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2665 "2023-03-05T17:34:52Z")
Forbes reported on it. > **[Desperate Russian Forces Are Sticking 80-Year-Old Naval Guns On 70-Year-Old...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/03/04/desperate-russian-forces-are-adding-80-year-old-naval-guns-to-70-year-old-armored-tractors/?sh=507305e0112c)** > > The up-gunned, tracked MT-LBs are further evidence of the Kremlin’s worsening equipment crisis as it struggles to make good its losses in Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2666 "2023-03-05T17:39:13Z")
Ah, thank you for that further information. I was lazy. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2667 "2023-03-05T18:06:55Z")
I found this video which illustrates why we can’t just load up some tanks and send them int UKR. [https://www.google.com/search?q=ukrainian+tank+crew+training&rlz=1C1CHBF\_en-GBGB961GB961&oq=ukranian+tank+crew&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0i10i512l3j0i22i30l2j0i10i22i30i625j0i390l3.11707j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:118af46d,vid:5cu3N0y7Sf8](https://www.google.com/search?q=ukrainian+tank+crew+training&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB961GB961&oq=ukranian+tank+crew&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0i10i512l3j0i22i30l2j0i10i22i30i625j0i390l3.11707j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:118af46d,vid:5cu3N0y7Sf8) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2668 "2023-03-05T18:10:30Z")
Synopsis? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2669 "2023-03-05T18:26:00Z")
It’s a video about how Ukrainian troops are being trained to operate and maintain Challenger tanks [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/5cu3N0y7Sf8/maxresdefault.jpg "Inside Challenger 2 Tank Training With Ukrainian Troops | WSJ") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cu3N0y7Sf8) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2670 "2023-03-05T18:38:42Z")
Short sharp shovels make good melee weapons. They hit their peak of popularity during WWI. Short axes were standard Viking weapons for the same reasons. [https://www.warhistoryonline.com/history/effective-melee-weapons-wwi-bayonet-wasnt-one.html?firefox=1](https://www.warhistoryonline.com/history/effective-melee-weapons-wwi-bayonet-wasnt-one.html?firefox=1) ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2671 "2023-03-05T18:53:28Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > Short sharp shovels make good melee weapons. While this is true, it also means you’ve exhausted every other alternative. They are basically a last stand weapon. I also have my doubts that the troops that Russia is fielding have spent any time honing the edge of the shovels, which was important back in WWII. They were sharp enough to be thrown at short ranges. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2672 "2023-03-05T22:45:03Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Russians [are apparently using shovels in close combat due to a lack of ammunition.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64855760). How well do shovels work when the Ukrainian fighters are still using bullets? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=130) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=132)