# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 138
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2795 "2023-03-09T16:41:33Z")
“This is purely to frighten and terrorize civilians. Russia is prepared to dig deep into its pockets for this.” Deep, indeed. Apparently it takes 7+ multimillion dollar missiles to kill just one Ukrainian. If I was a Kremlin bookkeeper, I’d throw _myself_ out a window. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2796 "2023-03-09T16:48:56Z")
Half a billion dollars for one day’s terror attacks against civilians. And we all know how well terror attacks against civilians can win you the war… in just a single day! Look how London capitulated in WW II so easily! Putin has not really studied history much, has he? ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2797 "2023-03-09T17:11:23Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Apparently it takes 7+ multimillion dollar missiles to kill just one Ukrainian. It’s worth remembering that Russia heavily targets the infrastructure, especially power production / distribution, as well. This costs Ukraine millions, and probably lives as well, indirectly. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2798 "2023-03-09T17:12:52Z")
> [@](#): > > armed Ukrainian nationalists who violated the state border Is this Russia admitting that their previous claiming of Ukrainian territory is bullshit? Surely there have been countless violations of the territory they supposedly claimed already. So why is this different? (Rhetorical.) ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2799 "2023-03-09T17:27:44Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Is this Russia admitting that their previous claiming of Ukrainian territory is bullshit? There’s talk that the attack on Bryansk was the work of a domestic (Russian) anti-Putin group, which is something the Kremlin absolutely can’t admit. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2800 "2023-03-09T18:51:36Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > I can’t see China supplying strategic missiles to Russia that could be used against their own cities. I could see China offering Russia more non-lethal support, you know, like sending more airsoft vests and plastic helmets, and maybe buying more discounted raw materials, but lethal aid is much more problematic. Not only because the Chinese don’t trust the Russians with turning their own weapons on them, but China has been working the past several decades to achieve superpower status and right now they need the west a lot more than they need Russia to achieve their aim. If they started supplying missiles to Russia, it would only be a matter of time before examination of the blast debris revealed those missiles’ origin. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2801 "2023-03-09T19:11:37Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > If I was a Kremlin bookkeeper, I’d throw _myself_ out a window. Don’t bother. They have _people_ for that. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2802 "2023-03-09T19:16:55Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > That depends on if the missiles are native Russian produced missiles or if they’ve started receiving missiles from China. Bit of a hijack off this, but I thought Russia and China still used different sized tracks, making trains a poor transport platform. However, it seems that is no longer a problem. They now have a problem of too much train traffic going back and forth. If China does ship missiles, trains all the way to western Russia are now possible. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2803 "2023-03-09T20:32:11Z")
Personally, I don’t see China giving two shits about who gets killed by their weapons as long as (a) it’s not in China and (b) the check clears. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2804 "2023-03-09T20:42:17Z")
They don’t want me to be hacked off at them and buy my aquarium filters somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2805 "2023-03-09T20:53:22Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Personally, I don’t see China giving two shits about who gets killed by their weapons as long as (a) it’s not in China and (b) the check clears. I agree China couldn’t care less about the loss of life on either side, but I strongly suspect the reason China has stayed out of the lethal aid business thus far is because they understand that the countries supplying weapons and support to Ukraine also happen to be the countries that buy the vast majority of China’s exports. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2806 "2023-03-09T21:08:22Z")
This Newsweek headline kills me ‘Kinzhal missile fundamentally changes the war’ (presumably in Russia’s favor). 🙄 [Russia’s Kinzhal Missile ‘Fundamentally Changes’ the War: Ex-U.S. Colonel (msn.com)](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-s-kinzhal-missile-fundamentally-changes-the-war-ex-u-s-colonel/ar-AA18qfhp?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=9e83450566e44f56973295d60198d958&ei=16) So Russia has now developed a hypersonic missile that’s nearly impossible to intercept. That would be of great concern if they were sitting on a vast stockpile and used that stockpile to lay waste to all the many thousands of strategic targets that exist in Ukraine. But they can’t have more than a handful of these. If they did they would have used them already. And their capacity to mass produce these advanced weapons requiring the highest grade (read western made) microchips is nonexistent. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2807 "2023-03-09T21:40:35Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > But they can’t have more than a handful of these. An infographic issued by the Ukrainian MoD back in November estimated that Russia had 43 Kinzhal in stock at the beginning of the war, and as of November had used 16 and had produced 16 over the same period. If those estimates are accurate, they used up 4 months of Kinzhal production last night, and likely have 40-45 still in stock. Also keep in mind that this is supposed to be the weapon system the west has no answer for, making it a key component of their nuclear deterrence, so presumably the won’t want to fire every last one at highly strategic coal-fired power plants. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2808 "2023-03-09T22:12:24Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > so presumably the won’t want to fire every last one at highly strategic coal-fired power plants I would also assume some portion of that total inventory is reserved for, and outfitted with, nuclear warheads and therefore off-limits for use in this contest. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2809 "2023-03-09T22:28:48Z")
[An analysis of what a Ukrainian retreat from Bakhmut would mean.](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/3/6/what-happens-when-ukraine-leaves-bakhmut) In other news, Russia blames [Ukraine for an an assassination attempt in Moldova.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64901605) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2810 "2023-03-09T23:34:36Z")
FWIW, the NATO reporting name for the Kh-47M2 Kinzhal missile is ‘Killjoy’. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2811 "2023-03-09T23:47:36Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > An infographic issued by the Ukrainian MoD back in November estimated that Russia had 43 Kinzhal in stock at the beginning of the war, and as of November had used 16 and had produced 16 over the same period. If those estimates are accurate, they used up 4 months of Kinzhal production last night, and likely have 40-45 still in stock. That’s assuming that they’re able to maintain a constant rate of production. If they can’t get the chips they need, then any production has to be drawing on whatever reserve of chips they have. How many do they have, and how soon will they run out of them? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2812 "2023-03-09T23:48:36Z")
The previous commentary is reassuring and makes sense. My fear was that the sudden onslaught may have been due to missiles being supplied by China, which would be a game-changer. I agree that this would be extremely provocative and unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2023, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2813 "2023-03-09T23:56:35Z")
They’re much more likely to get missiles from Iran than China. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2814 "2023-03-10T02:31:26Z")
Russia’s hypersonic missiles are very concerning. Apparently our current anti missile tech can’t shoot them down. That should keep all the NATO leaders up at night. > **[Why Russia's Hypersonic Missiles Can't Be Seen on Radar](https://www.military.com/equipment/weapons/why-russias-hypersonic-missiles-cant-be-seen-radar.html)** > > The speed of hypersonic weapons are changing the way the world's military minds think about the future of great power conflicts in ways no one could have predicted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=137) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=139)