# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 14
### Author:  [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)
#### Post date: [November 5, 2022, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/261 "2022-11-05T16:59:54Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> Could be as simple as inspecting and replacing “expired” solid propellant or explosives. Test and repair electronics (but not necessarily upgrade if they’re already at the newest revision for the version of the weapon). Maybe even repaint and re-mark.
The particular solid propellants used (it’s a dual grain motor\*) are not really subject to expiration like artillery propellants. The explosive main charge is also fine for decades. I don’t have my references (retired from the bomb, bullet, and missile business some years ago) but there are some pyrotechnic devices that could be changed out (think initiators in the guidance package), I seem to remember an hydraulic accumulator to drive the fins which will have a couple of pyrotechnic actuators, and thermal batteries. Pyrotechnics do have specific shelf and service life requirements.
The electronics should all be the latest version but subject to testing. While long inactive for US forces, other nations use/used the system recently with US backup for parts and technical information.
\*Back in the 1991/92 area, I participated in the pouring/curing of HAWK motors at Aerojet in Sacramento, CA. The booster grain was cast first and cured. On pour day, the booster grain would be placed on a roller lathe and a guy would trim the skin (rind) off the grain with a non-sparking knife. This would assure bonding to the sustainer grain. There were only 3 of us in the room where the cutting was done to minimize casualties (we’d be black goo) in the event of an accident. The guy dong the shaving had done this for some twenty years but my boss observing was freaked out. The trimmed grain would be vertically transferred to the assembly area. Rocket motor cases were suspended on another line and the sustainer propellant was poured in to a certain level. The booster grain would be submerged vertically into the motor/sustainer propellant to get it centered as it displaced the sustainer liquid. A guy up top would monitor levels and add/remove sustainer (still liquid at this point) to get the right fill. The completed motors would be transported to a temperature controlled room while everything cured. The rooms were massive, hot, and the odor of raw rubber binder was everywhere.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [November 5, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/262 "2022-11-05T17:50:25Z")
That’s not a job many people can do. My hands would be shaking too bad. Thank you for sharing that story.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [November 5, 2022, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/263 "2022-11-05T18:35:25Z")
Doxxing Ukrainian supporters & soldiers and threatening to rape their mothers and sisters. It’s even more terrifying because they’ve found addresses and photos online.
> **['We know where your family live' - Ukrainian fighters face online death threats](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-63491977)**
>
> A BBC investigation finds that Ukrainian soldiers and pro-Ukrainian activists are being targeted on Telegram.
> [@](#):
>
> “These channels break Telegram’s terms of service because they promote violence in a systematic way”, says Julia Smirnova, a senior analyst at Institute for Strategic Dialogue focused on disinformation and online hate speech.
>
> “They call for ‘punishing’ people whose data they publish, use hateful terms and slurs to describe them,” says Ms Smirnova. “The channels also publish posts that celebrate killings of Ukrainian military personnel or violence against people supporting the Ukrainian army.”
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [November 5, 2022, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/264 "2022-11-05T19:30:52Z")
> Putin signs law to mobilize Russian citizens convicted of serious crimes
I guess this makes sense when the primary purpose of the Russian occupation of Ukraine is looting, raping and murdering citizens.
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### Author:  [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)
#### Post date: [November 5, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/265 "2022-11-05T20:20:51Z")
Aren’t these the types of troops that would turn on their commanders the first chance they got and flee towards Ukraine? Hasn’t Putins Russia already taken everything from them?
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### Author:  [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)
#### Post date: [November 5, 2022, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/266 "2022-11-05T23:34:08Z")
Criminals don’t make good soldiers, I’d guess.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2022, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/267 "2022-11-06T00:34:53Z")
No. They would probably make good terror weapons to unleash on Ukranian civilians though. I think that’s their purpose.
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### Author:  [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2022, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/268 "2022-11-06T00:46:10Z")
What a horrific and cold-blooded idea! I’m not aiming that at you, mind.
And [a Russian missile landed in Moldova a few days ago.](https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1689957/Russia-missile-hit-Moldova-World-War-3-fears-Ukraine-war-Vladimir-Putin-latest/amp) An accident, but still scary.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2022, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/269 "2022-11-06T02:50:31Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Doxxing Ukrainian supporters & soldiers and threatening to rape their mothers and sisters. It’s even more terrifying because they’ve found addresses and photos online.
Have they verified where the threats are coming from? I mean, Russian troll farms are the obvious bet, but there’s a part of me that fears that a lot of these threats are coming from the US.
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2022, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/270 "2022-11-06T03:00:10Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> They would probably make good terror weapons to unleash on Ukranian civilians though. I think that’s their purpose.
ISTR Saddam Hussein did something similar in the run-up to the 2003 invasion, but I don’t remember how that worked out for him.
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2022, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/271 "2022-11-06T03:10:49Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#):
>
> Criminals don’t make good soldiers, I’d guess.
Lee Marvin has a fan in the Kremlin.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2022, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/272 "2022-11-06T04:36:58Z")
Most likely drunk on vodka and shooting at any noise. We had to kick three guys out of our Deer Club for drinking and being unsafe.
Site [Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, November 5 | Institute for the Study of War](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-november-5)
> [@](#):
>
> **Former Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Security Minister and current DNR military commander Aleksandr Khodakovsky claimed on November 5 that Russian friendly fire may have caused up to 60% of total Russian losses since the end of Russian offensive operations in Mariupol in mid-May.** [14] Even if this statistic is exaggerated, the fact that a Russian commander is publicly speculating on such a damning indicator of Russian and proxy competency indicates the deep challenges Russian forces face. Friendly fire typically does account for a limited number of losses in war but ordinarily nowhere near 60% of total casualties, which demonstrates a lack of communication and command and control coordination between Russian forces.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2022, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/273 "2022-11-06T06:56:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> Have they verified where the threats are coming from? I mean, Russian troll farms are the obvious bet, but there’s a part of me that fears that a lot of these threats are coming from the US.
The Russian Troll farms are probably behind most of it.
Doxxing can come from any Armchair warrior that supports the Russian war. Doxxing has been a problem on the Internet for a long time. Social media allows the personal information to easily spread.
Anyway, back to the war. Bastards are stealing everything…
Guardian [Russian troops loot Kherson as lines redrawn ahead of final battle for city | Ukraine | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/05/ukraine-russian-troops-loot-kherson-as-lines-redrawn-ahead-of-final-battle-for-city)
> [@](#):
>
> Our correspondent Luke Harding, reporting from Kyiv, has written about how Moscow is deporting **Kherson** residents along with stolen art, tractors and cars as Ukraine’s forces close in.
>
> “Things are disappearing in the Ukrainian city of Kherson at a rapid rate. Some are physical objects. Russian troops are taking away ambulances, tractors and stolen private cars. Cultural things are going too: archives, and paintings and sculptures from the art and local lore museums. Even the bones of Catherine the Great’s friend and lover, Grigory Potemkin, have been grubbed up from a crypt in St Catherine’s Cathedral and spirited away.”
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2022, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/274 "2022-11-06T14:54:07Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#):
>
> Aren’t these the types of troops that would turn on their commanders…?
> **[‘The Command Fled’: Putin’s Own Troops Keep Humiliating Him](https://www.yahoo.com/news/command-fled-putin-own-troops-092553394.html)**
>
> As he hailed his mobilization as a glowing success, troops rioted, spoke out of 500 killed, and revealed the Kremlin’s plan to stiff the relatives of the dead.
> [D]ozens of drafted troops were captured on video late Friday berating military leadership outside a collection point for the newly mobilized.
>
> The angry crowd complained of a lack of water, food, and “rusty” rifles from the 1970s that one soldier said were too “dangerous” to even use, according to local outlets. Spectacularly, the troops were not cowed by a military officer who threatened to call in riot police.
>
> “What kind of riot police are you trying to scare us with? We’ll call everyone we know right now, and they’ll come and we’ll pummel all of you and the riot police,” one protesting soldier yelled back.
>
> The officer was forced to retreat as the crowd of rioting troops chanted “cocksucker,” the video shows.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2022, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/275 "2022-11-06T16:25:47Z")
Wow. Most people saw this coming. Get invaded and screwed over in less than a year.
Putin is counting on the West to cave in. Then he’ll wait awhile and invade another former Soviet territory.
> **[US says Zelenskiy risks allies’ ‘Ukraine fatigue’ if he rejects Russia talks...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/06/us-says-zelenskiy-risks-allies-ukraine-fatigue-if-he-rejects-russia-talks-report)**
>
> Ukraine’s position with allies is wearing thin as fears grow over economic effect of protracted war, officials tell newspaper
> [@](#):
>
> Ukraine fatigue is a real thing for some of our partners,” one US official said.
>
> US officials have requested that Kyiv signal its openness to negotiate not to push Ukraine towards the negotiating table immediately, but to maintain support of concerned allies, according to the Post.
>
> But for Ukrainian officials, the US’s request would mean reneging on several months of rhetoric about the need for a decisive military defeat against Russia in order to secure Ukraine’s security in the long term – a message which strongly resonates with the Ukrainian population who fear Russia will only re-attempt to capture the country in the future.
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### Author:  [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/276 "2022-11-06T16:40:51Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Wow. Most people saw this coming. Get invaded and screwed over in less than a year.
>
> Putin is counting on the West to cave in. Then he’ll wait awhile and invade another former Soviet territory.
I don’t get the mindset of those who think that way. Negotiations with Putin are just as useless as negotiations with Hitler were back in the day. How anyone could think otherwise boggles the mind. The only realistic options are surrender, lose on the battlefield, or win on the battlefield.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2022, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/277 "2022-11-06T16:56:11Z")
Yup, Russia will eventually be more powerful after adding Ukraine’s resources.
Russia has to be stopped now.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2022, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/278 "2022-11-06T17:55:30Z")
Yes. Russia takes Ukraine, and next they will claim that Poland, Romania and Hungary can no longer be NATO members because they border Russia now, and besides, they are full of Nazis/Satanists/Baptists now.
Putin has made it very clear that his plans include taking back all of the former USSR, and also the Warsaw Pact countries. He’s serious.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/279 "2022-11-06T18:20:05Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> Putin has made it very clear that his plans include taking back all of the former USSR, and also the Warsaw Pact countries.
And then, just to add a buffer, those nations that border the old Warsaw Pact countries. And then those new additions will also need a buffer, and so on. He might be satisfied once he reaches Portugal. Might.
> [@](#):
>
> US officials have requested that Kyiv signal its openness to negotiate not to push Ukraine towards the negotiating table immediately, but to maintain support of concerned allies, according to the Post.
That sounds a lot like the old “people are saying”, or other similar deflection to unnamed others. If some of Ukraine’s other allies are concerned and want negotiations, let them say so. As for my little corner of the US, I say let us keep giving Ukraine as much support as they need for as long as they need it, whatever those other “concerned allies” might think.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2022, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/280 "2022-11-06T20:41:11Z")
What’s wrong with negotiations? Ukraine just has to say that their conditions are that Russia pull out of all Ukrainian territory, including Crimea; and cease all hostilities (these points are not negotiable). In return, Ukraine promises to remove Nazis from their government. Then ask Russia what else they want (aside from the non-negotiable points). If Russia balks, then the world will see that Russia refuses to negotiate.
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