# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 141
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2855 "2023-03-13T02:58:07Z")
Prophylactic defenestration? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2856 "2023-03-13T05:50:47Z")
Prefenestration? ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2857 "2023-03-13T06:10:54Z")
Meanwhile Chinese state media has shown a map of what Russia might look like after its collapse. [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrFBCw3XgAAf63E?format=jpg&name=large) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrFBCw3XgAAf63E?format=jpg&name=large) I’m guessing those red bits are where the natural resources are. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2858 "2023-03-13T06:46:16Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > Meanwhile Chinese state media has shown a map of what Russia might look like after its collapse. Or is that playing up to the Russian “This is what the West wants to do to us” line? ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2859 "2023-03-13T06:54:44Z")
I did wonder that but if that was the case i reckon you would see more NATO and less China on that map. Admittedly however, I don’t know the full context. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2860 "2023-03-13T07:01:43Z")
Damn I think I got duped. Sorry everyone. > **[False: Chinese state television displayed a map showing how Russia will be...](https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/f9be9e4c)** > > China did not air a map depicting a divided Russia. A map showing Russia's neighboring countries relative to its vast area has been miscaptioned. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2861 "2023-03-13T07:11:07Z")
Upgraded T-80 tanks from Pakistan to Ukraine possible. Upgraded tanks with the diesel engine vs. the turbine. > **[Pakistan offers to transfer 44 T-80UD tanks to Ukraine in exchange of...](https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_march_2023_global_security_army_industry/pakistan_offers_to_transfer_44_t-80ud_tanks_to_ukraine_in_exchange_of_financial_assistance.html)** > > Pakistan plans to transfer 44 T-80UD main battle tanks to Ukraine in exchange for financial assistance from Western countries I would much rather read, “44 T-80 tanks **arrived** in Ukraine from Pakistan.” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2862 "2023-03-13T10:27:46Z")
Nvm - apparently the news media got trolled. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2863 "2023-03-13T13:53:30Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > I would much rather read, “44 T-80 tanks **arrived** in Ukraine from Pakistan.” That would be nice. I wonder how difficult the logistics of such a transfer would be. Presumably the transfer would be via American transport planes. The route going west is shorter, but would involve flying over Iraq, or maybe Egypt if they take a slightly longer route. The alternative would be to go the very long way east across the Indian and Pacific oceans, the US, then the Atlantic and Europe. Maybe a naval transport, all the way around Africa and then north up to the Baltic, dropping them off in Poland, would be a viable alternate route? Either way it seems like it’s going to be a challenge to get them there. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2864 "2023-03-13T15:01:31Z")
From an article in the Telegraph, reprinted in the National Post: Mothers in Russia met with Putin, and said he should stop sending their sons to the front with poor training and no ammunition. > In a rare acknowledgment of government failings, Putin told a group of mothers he felt “their pain” at a choreographed meeting. He has also said “mistakes” were made in the call-up to reinforcements. > > Despite this, the Kremlin has hinted at a second mobilization. MPs have proposed a law to give Russia’s National Guard more power to enforce military draft orders and another that will allow property to be confiscated from Russians who flee abroad. Right. Looks like the only “mistake” he thinks he made in the mobilization was not being harsh enough. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2865 "2023-03-13T15:38:17Z")
Xi to speak to Zelensky in a virtual meeting: > ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2866 "2023-03-13T16:13:50Z")
The private armies being formed by Russian companies will be useful to them after Russia collapses and descends into warlordism: > [![](https://i.imgur.com/zy45LTK.png) ](https://i.imgur.com/zy45LTK.png) ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2867 "2023-03-13T18:06:22Z")
Not everyone appears to be thrilled with private military companies, however. > **[Russian military chiefs 'deliberately' using Bakhmut to purge Wagner](https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1745544/ukraine-live-updates-russia-military-wagner-group-bakhmut-battle)** > > Russian MoD officials are using the battle of Bakhmut to weaken Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin and derail his ambitions for greater influence in the Kremlin, analysts say. The idea of Putin’s administration deliberately bleeding internal rivals’ armies to ineffectiveness feels likely. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2868 "2023-03-13T18:29:46Z")
And I thought the constant squabbling in WWII between the IJN and Imperial Army was a recipe for defeat. For a paranoid society it’s surely failing to pull together and protect Rodina. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2869 "2023-03-13T18:31:18Z")
I would add a fair pinch of salt to anything appearing in Bild, and the Daily Express. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2870 "2023-03-13T19:11:21Z")
Forbes is reporting that Russia is running out of T-72s faster than previously thought with only a third of them left. The NATO tanks will make mincemeat out of these. The British challenger 2 tank fought against Soviet style tanks in Iraq and they didn’t lose a single unit. > **[The Russian Army Is Running Out Of T-72 Tanks—And Quickly](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/03/12/the-russian-army-is-running-out-of-t-72-tanks-and-quickly/)** > > The worsening T-72 shortfall helps to explain why the Russians increasingly are equipping their newly-mobilized battalions with obsolete T-62 and T-80B tanks. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2871 "2023-03-13T19:26:00Z")
Did Iraq field T-72s in the Gulf War? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2872 "2023-03-13T19:30:13Z")
How do you feel about the ISW, who has been a prominent analyst of the conflict so far? > **[Institute for the Study of War](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-12-2023)** > > ISW is publishing an abbreviated campaign update today, March 12. This report establishes a comprehensive timeline of the rivalry between Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin and the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD), which likely reached a... > [@](#): > > The conflict between the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) and Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin likely reached its climax against the backdrop of the Battle of Bakhmut. **The Russian MoD – specifically Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu and Chief of the Russian General Staff General Valery Gerasimov – is likely seizing the opportunity to deliberately expend both elite and convict Wagner forces in Bakhmut in an effort to weaken Prigozhin and derail his ambitions for greater influence in the Kremlin.** ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2873 "2023-03-13T19:32:33Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Did Iraq field T-72s in the Gulf War? Yes - how many they had available at any one time would have varied and they were of various models, but over 1,000 were delivered to Iraq over the years, plus about 100 local variants. They performed reasonably well in the late 1970’s against similarly elderly Iranian tanks (British Chieftains, most notably). The current Iraq army still has a couple hundred. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/2874 "2023-03-13T19:44:02Z")
If he were so worried about NATO moving in, why the hell wasn’t Putin building modern tanks instead of invading countries? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=140) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=142)