# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 152
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3075 "2023-03-19T13:10:21Z")
coming back to the article (I started reading it tonight and finished just now) … … it leaves me as a westener quite **proud/content/conform** on our collective reactions, b/c there is a sense of that things were done well, lots of “off-ramps” offered, everything we could possibly do was done … but Hitler wanted to start WWII - and there is no way to keep him from doing it. It also makes me very certain that there were and are docens of scenarios / wargames being played and **there is a playbook for pretty much everything now** (esp. nuclear escalation) … so very little needs to be improvised ad-hoc as there already are a lot of options-to-react thought out and filtered through numerous layers of experts. So, I feel (from this POV) we are in a good place. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3076 "2023-03-19T19:26:03Z")
> **Hidden as a hijack, see Mod-note and please don't reply. {What Exit?}** > > > [@Magiver](#): > > > > It would be a nice addition to the drones. > > I am totally and irretrievably against arming drones. > > > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > > > Putin takes his first trip abroad since the ICC arrest warrant, making a surprise visit to Ukraine: > > Yeah, Crimea is pretty much no longer Ukraine. Maybe it can come back, but it has been gone since 2014. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3077 "2023-03-19T19:28:31Z")
> **part of the hijack** > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > I am totally and irretrievably against arming drones. > > Mind explaining why? > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > Yeah, Crimea is pretty much no longer Ukraine. Maybe it can come back, but it has been gone since 2014. > > Nice of you to decide that for the Ukranians. I’m sure they will give your opinion the full weight it deserves. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3078 "2023-03-19T19:30:11Z")
> **part of the hijack** > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > Yeah, Crimea is pretty much no longer Ukraine. > > It’s legally Ukraine in a generally recognized international sense. Not a nit worth picking IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3079 "2023-03-19T19:31:16Z")
> **part of the hijack** > > > [@DesertDog](#): > > > > Nice of you to decide that for the Ukranians. I’m sure they will give your opinion the full weight it deserves. > > _At this point in time,_ Crimea is part of Russia. That is Realpolitik. That does not mean that Russia deserves to keep it, or wont have to give it back, but note we say that about Crimea- “Russia should give it back” which of course recognizes that currently Russia has it. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3080 "2023-03-19T19:33:28Z")
> **part of the hijack** > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > _At this point in time,_ Crimea is part of Russia > > At this point in time it is occupied by Russia. So is the city of Donetsk. > > And with that, I will drop the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3081 "2023-03-19T19:35:05Z")
---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3082 "2023-03-19T19:36:10Z")
## This can be a new thread, but no more of this hijacks about Crimea’s status in this thread. I will try and hide the related posts now. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3083 "2023-03-19T19:36:40Z")
Please report hijacks rather than continue them. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3084 "2023-03-19T19:51:48Z")
This topic was automatically opened after 13 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3085 "2023-03-19T20:01:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m surprised there isn’t more word on public opposition to Putin at this point. I realize it’s actively suppressed but I expected more grassroots efforts to show show support for the opposition. I don’t know… We’re hearing about a lot of things like fires and other accidents at strategic facilities far from the front lines. Those might be crack Ukrainian special ops teams, but I think they’re more likely to be locals. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3086 "2023-03-19T20:36:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Those might be crack Ukrainian special ops teams, but I think they’re more likely to be locals. There is little in the way of independent journalism in Vladistan, so you can prettymuch count on any internal mischief being “caused by Ukrainian commandos” or some sort of industrial accident. Although, to be fair, there is not much coming out Ukraine that is independent either. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3087 "2023-03-20T00:04:29Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > ## This can be a new thread, but no more of this hijacks about Crimea’s status in this thread. > > I will try and hide the related posts now. Could you clarify this? Crimea is an active part of the war zone. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3088 "2023-03-20T00:12:37Z")
Arguments over the status of Crimea as Russian or Ukraine needs to move out of the thread. If it involves the invasion it is fine. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3089 "2023-03-20T05:02:53Z")
Assessment from the Institute for the Study of War: > [@](#): > > The overall Russian spring offensive is thus likely approaching culmination. Ongoing Russian offensives along the Svatove-Kreminna line, around Bakhmut, and along the Avdiivka-Donetsk City and Vuhledar frontlines have failed to make more than incremental tactical gains in the first few months of 2023. Russia has committed the approximately 300,000 mobilized soldiers, called up by partial mobilization in September 2022 for the purpose of pursuing exactly such a spring offensive, to these various offensive efforts. If 300,000 Russian soldiers have been unable to give Russia a decisive offensive edge in Ukraine it is highly unlikely that the commitment of additional forces in future mobilization waves will produce a dramatically different outcome this year. Ukraine is therefore well positioned to regain the initiative and launch counteroffensives in critical sectors of the current frontline. > **[Institute for the Study of War](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-update-march-19-2023)** > > ISW is publishing an abbreviated campaign update today, March 19. This report discusses growing Russian concern about a prospective Ukrainian counteroffensive near Bakhmut or in southern Ukraine, and Russian efforts to prepare mitigations for these ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3090 "2023-03-20T06:16:44Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Assessment from the Institute for the Study of War: I just came to post this. I think it’s a pretty good take on the situation on the ground. Russian forces gained so little and expended so much. A couple of small quotes, with my bolding. > Unknown actors killed a Russian occupation Ministry of Internal Affairs Patrol Service platoon commander with a car bomb in occupied Kherson Oblast. **Ukrainian media hypothesized that the attack may have been a partisan attack or a result of Russian infighting.** Infighting is the best kind. More of that please. > Russian federal communication supervisor Roskomnadzor blocked a website that helped Russians escape mobilization in continued crackdowns against resistance to mobilization. I hadn’t realized there was a organized resistance to mobilization. I thought people were just fleeing. More of that is needed too. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3091 "2023-03-20T18:32:37Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > I hadn’t realized there was a organized resistance to mobilization. Whenever there are drafts, there are those who profit from helping people avoid it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3092 "2023-03-20T18:50:49Z")
One does wonder how so many potential draftees were able to leave Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3093 "2023-03-20T19:14:47Z")
It’s an ancient tradition. Calvin Trillin wrote in one of his books that he wouldn’t give his grandfather’s real name because, “We think the Russian army is still looking for him.” ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/3094 "2023-03-20T20:25:46Z")
My paternal grandfather reputedly deserted TWO Russian armies (White Russian and Red Russian) as well as three others (Polish, I think German, and I forget the fifth.) Slonim area, WWI. – none of them had drafted him as a soldier; they’d all impressed him as a dishwasher, or for similar work. He was Jewish; none of them were in any real sense his army. Any of them would have shot him if they’d caught him, though; as well as if they’d caught him smuggling bits of food back to his starving family. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=151) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=153)