### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/301 "2022-11-07T15:33:57Z")
Are the hospital generators intended for extended service?
That’s the issue in Ukraine. The hospitals may be on generator power for months. We rarely see anything like that in the US.
I know maintenance goes up with extended use. They use more oil and it needs replacing more frequently.
I shudder at the electrical spikes that has to be coming off Ukraines power grid. It has to be frying computers and tv’s.
---
### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/302 "2022-11-07T15:41:50Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Are the hospital generators intended for extended service?
Depends on what you mean by extended service and I can only speak to US Hospitals in the 80s/90s in NJ.
Running continuously for a week(s) is expected, for months, not so much.
I have not kept up on generator tech, but a diesel generator can be pretty resilient if kept oiled.
---
### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/303 "2022-11-07T15:50:37Z")
The rise and fall of Russia’s Minister of Defense, Sergei Shoigu is quite a story. He was a good friend of Boris Yeltsin and later Putin.
I’m surprised he hasn’t already been scapegoated and removed from power. It will happen soon. Putin will blame the people around him.
> **[How Sergei Shoigu went from Putin's wilderness bestie to the scapegoat for...](https://www.businessinsider.com/sergei-shoigu-vladimir-putin-russia-ukraine-war-problems-2022-11)**
>
> Sergei Shoigu was once touted to be Russia's next prime minister — until a series of problems in the Ukraine war made him a target of scathing criticism.
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### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/304 "2022-11-07T16:25:04Z")
Same? event, it seems …
def. not an army/environment to win a war …
>
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/305 "2022-11-07T16:32:56Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#):
>
> Ahh, enjoying a nice latte over a burning Russian tank. How relaxing.
That ain’t no latte. According to the article it’s Turkish-style.
> When Granvoskiy makes coffee, places finely ground beans into a pot, adding water and gently heating for five to seven minutes, skimming foam away as needed. While the coffee heats, it gives soldiers something pleasant to focus on. “So you’re paying attention to it in a way that’s similar to meditation,” says Granovskiy. “All of your attention goes into this brewing and I wanted them to have this as a psychological practice of making coffee and letting go.”
I make French press coffee with coarsely-ground beans steeped off of the fire for four minutes – no foam involved. This stuff would likely stand a spoon.
---
### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/306 "2022-11-07T16:44:41Z")
> [@Al128](#):
>
> Same? event, it seems …
>
> def. not an army/environment to win a war …
Let’s hope rebellion spreads within the Russian army. It might be unsettling enough for the military to reconsider operations in Ukraine.
They’d only keep their best and most loyal troops for defending Donbas.
---
### Author:  [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/307 "2022-11-07T16:54:38Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Are the hospital generators intended for extended service?
>
> That’s the issue in Ukraine. The hospitals may be on generator power for months. We rarely see anything like that in the US.
>
> I know maintenance goes up with extended use. They use more oil and it needs replacing more frequently.
What **What\_Exit** wrote, plus:
Emergency power generation for local healthcare facilities has been put to the test frequently over the past 20 years. Each major facility has redundancy built into their backup power _systems_ (as opposed to individual generators), which allows indefinite power generation as units can ‘hot-swap’ and go offline for maintenance – or even replacement if necessary.
---
### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/308 "2022-11-07T16:57:41Z")
> [@bordelond](#):
>
> Each major facility has redundancy built into their backup power _systems_ (as opposed to individual generators), which allows indefinite power generation as units can ‘hot-swap’ and go offline for maintenance – or even replacement if necessary.
That is a big improvement over our one very robust generator. At least it was big enough to keep critical care units & the OR equipment up and running. But I’m talking the early 90s.
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/309 "2022-11-07T18:16:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> Russia planned to go as far as Portugal, eventually. We (including Putin) have now learned that those plans were unrealistic. But if they had time to lick their wounds and figure out what went wrong in Ukraine, and fix it, the plans could become realistic. That’s the scenario we need to worry about, and make sure it doesn’t come to fruition.
Russia has a military budget of $83 billion dollars. Much of it went to maintaining old Soviet hardware, paying crap wages, maintaining the ICBM fleet, etc. They don’t have the money to rebuild their military - they didn’t even have enough to properly maintain the equipment they had. Throw in corruption and the poor quality of soldiers, and Russia’s military is a basket case.
Russia has a smallish economy, but had a huge inventory of old Soviet hardware. To maintain and operate it all required lots of soldiers, which Russia couldn’t pay properly or afford to train properly. Now that much of that equipment is rusting in the fields of Ukraine, it has no hope of rebuilding its military to its former strength. Russia is destined to be a minor player in world affairs, and would already be one if not for its nuke arsenal. Its ability to project power more than a few hundred km from its border is gone, as is its logistical ability to support armies far afield
---
### Author:  [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/310 "2022-11-07T18:33:49Z")
But still plenty of power to commit war crimes.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/311 "2022-11-07T18:34:18Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#):
>
> Russia is destined to be a minor player in world affairs, and would already be one if not for its nuke arsenal. Its ability to project power more than a few hundred km from its border is gone, as is its logistical ability to support armies far afield
Pity it took so many dead Ukrainians to make that both apparent and a reality. Actually, it’s also sad it took so many dead Russians as well.
---
### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/312 "2022-11-07T18:57:16Z")
Good advice.
The Guardian feed
> [@](#):
>
> It came as Kyiv’s mayor and former boxing champion, Vitali Klitschko, said he could not rule out the prospect of a complete blackout for the capital as Russia continued its campaign of strikes on energy infrastructure.
>
> Speaking to Ukraine’s United News, a centralised news programme broadcast across all channels, Klitschko told people to prepare by buying power banks and warm clothes. In case of an all-out blackout, he said Kyiv’s residents should try to stay with relatives outside the capital.
>
> “If you have extended family or friends outside Kyiv, where there is autonomous water supply, an oven, heating, please keep in mind the possibility of staying there for a certain amount of time,” he said.
>
> However, Klitschko urged people in Kyiv not to be “pessimistic”, saying he was only advising people to prepare for different scenarios. “We will do everything that depends on us so that such a scenario does not happen.”
---
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/313 "2022-11-07T19:46:04Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> I think if Ukraine makes some further concessions, there could be a deal there: Ukraine promises to remove all Satanists from their government as well; all existing NATO biolabs in Ukraine are to be dismantled; Ukraine must promise not to build military bases in other NATO countries along Russia’s border.
Remove all known Nazis from power…
> [@Fear\_Itself](#):
>
> Any other terms amount to a Ukrainian surrender.
No, Ukraine can agree not to join NATO (until Putin is dead), and concede Crimea.
> [@DesertDog](#):
>
> This stuff would likely stand a spoon.
Or dissolve it…
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/314 "2022-11-07T20:02:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Ukraine can agree not to join NATO (until Putin is dead), and concede Crimea.
In other words, abject surrender until the next time Russia decides Ukraine doesn’t really exist.
---
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/315 "2022-11-07T20:06:47Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> In other words, abject surrender until the next time Russia decides Ukraine doesn’t really exist.
Hardly abject surrender, just Realpolitik. Save hundreds of thousands of lives, and lose nothing. Crimea is lost, sadly.
My mothers side family is Ukrainian, we fly the flag, I wear the hat, I send support.
Give Putin a way out before he goes nutso and uses nukes.
---
### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/316 "2022-11-07T20:07:16Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#):
>
> I must have missed it. Where did you read this? Not disbelieving, just curious.
The only way Putin could get forces to Portugal is by wargaming in the Kremlin with all his yes men playing opponents.
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Let’s hope rebellion spreads within the Russian army. It might be unsettling enough for the military to reconsider operations in Ukraine.
It’s hard to get any real idea of how widespread rebellion is. Has there actually been video of _armed_ rebellion? I’ve seen some unarmed fighting, but most of the video I see is men who could be anybody, most wearing various styles of semi military clothing, most not armed or even carrying any body armor or equipment. They look more like they are already prisoners rather than active soldiers. Maybe their arms and equipment went the same place as the 1.5 million uniforms.
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> They’d only keep their best and most loyal troops for defending Donbas.
Who would those be? The Wagner Group?
> [@Hypno-Toad](#):
>
> But still plenty of power to commit war crimes.
Yep, and they seem to prefer it to actually trying to fight the Ukrainian army. I wouldn’t be surprised if the ratio of missiles/artillery was 100 civilian targets to 1 military. They are literally making their military situation worse and they don’t give a fuck.
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> Ukraine promises to remove all Satanists from their government
Hey now, let’s not go that far. Once they agree to remove the Nazis, someone has to be the boss.
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> No, Ukraine can agree not to join NATO (until Putin is dead), and concede Crimea.
That just goes back to where things were when the Russians invaded. There is no going back there after all this slaughter. Pretty sure Ukraine would have a big no vote on that.
---
### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/317 "2022-11-07T20:10:40Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> The only way Putin could get forces to Portugal is by wargaming in the Kremlin with all his yes men playing opponents.
[ ](https://www.nme.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Risk-board-game.jpg)
---
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/318 "2022-11-07T20:14:13Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> That just goes back to where things were when the Russians invaded. There is no going back there after all this slaughter. Pretty sure Ukraine would have a big no vote on that.
Then a long bloody war until either Putin dies or uses nukes. Do you think Ukraine can conquer all of Russia? Do you think Putin will give up unless he can claim some sort of win?
Crimea was lost back in 2014, not just before the war. The West more or less did nothing.
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### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/319 "2022-11-07T20:22:06Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> That just goes back to where things were when the Russians invaded.
Well, minus the half of the Donbas that was in rebellion. A return of all of Luhansk and Donetsk (and every other bit and bob) to Ukrainian government control in exchange for a proper, de-militarized and internationally run referendum in Crimea might be a starting point. Crimea was a [contentious absorption by Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Crimea_(1992%E2%80%931995)) and while the Russian referendum of 2014 was a transparent and illegal sham, it is in fact in possible that given a genuine choice Crimea might prefer to join Russia. Possible.
But I think both Russia AND Ukraine would have to be at the end of their rope to consider such a thing. And Putin would have to be dead or in jail.
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/320 "2022-11-07T20:23:58Z")
Perfect. There even seems to be Russians in Portugal. How’s that for proof?
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Do you think Ukraine can conquer all of Russia?
No, but nobody thinks they have to, least of all the Ukrainians. Right now they are well on their way to getting their country back. If they are willing to fight for it, the least we can do is back them. If the world would have done something in 2014, we wouldn’t have this war right now.
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