# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 204
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4153 "2023-05-24T17:19:02Z")
It said naval drones, so little boats, not little flyers (I think). ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4154 "2023-05-24T17:46:00Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > He better avoid windows. 😉 Especially with all that talk about Russia facing another 1917. Which might not be a bad outcome. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4155 "2023-05-24T17:51:47Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The article is based on a video interview with Prigozhin. I think his assessment of the war is correct. I’m amazed he’d dare say these things. If the Russians are saying the war is going badly…that concerns me. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4156 "2023-05-24T18:19:56Z")
The only way Prigozhin’s recent rhetoric makes sense to me is if he’s attempting to lay the foundation of a coup (from what he considers a safe distance, naturally). His statements seem aimed directly at undermining Putin and the top brass of Russia’s military while trying to portray himself as championing ordinary soldiers. (The latter is bullshit, of course, but if he’s looking to subvert elements of the regulars and the Guard, it would be a logical gambit.) It seems a poor gamble, but it’s possible that he’s feeling cornered. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4157 "2023-05-24T18:33:10Z")
Or he’s just a loudmouth feeling his oats. He got a big boost in supplies & presumably money last time he called the Ministry of Defense a bunch of weak incompetents. He may simply be angling for another shot of cash. Maybe it’s the tough love speech: > Look here political elites and Putin, > > Unlike most Russians, I can and will speak truth to power. You started it. If you don’t finish it successfully you’ll be hanging from a lamppost with all the other unsuccessful war-starters of recent history. That won’t be my doing, nor will it be my fault you lost. I have tried and am still trying to win. The way to finish this war successfully is to fully fund Wagner and put me in charge. > > Or not. Your choice. > > Love & Kisses, > Prighozin ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4158 "2023-05-25T11:22:11Z")
Wagner [are handing over their positions in Bakhmut to the regular Army](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/5/25/russia-ukraine-live-saboteurs-accused-of-nuclear-plant-attacks). This would seem to be a good moment for Ukraine to strike. And [Russian prosecutors are asking a court to recognize Nazi crimes during WW2](https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/crime-pmn/russian-prosecutor-asks-court-to-recognize-nazi-ww2-crimes-around-moscow-as-genocide) for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4159 "2023-05-25T16:33:04Z")
The Russians released a video showing them destroying a naval drone attacking the warship Ivan Khurs: > However, another video has surfaced appearing to show a naval drone making it to the ship: > ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4160 "2023-05-25T17:43:13Z")
Appears to have struck in the stern around where the engine compartment is likely located. Depending on the size of the explosive charge, that could do some serious damage. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4161 "2023-05-25T18:28:33Z")
Even if it didn’t breach the armor, that’s where the rudder(s) hang out and, being unprotected, they are notoriously prone to damage. Just ask the crew of _Bismarck_. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4162 "2023-05-25T18:37:59Z")
Armor? On an intel gathering vessel? Not very likely. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4163 "2023-05-25T21:35:06Z")
Hmm, that does look like Ukraine may have attacked it with drones, and one may have succeeded. Tastiest crow I’ve ever eaten. Can I get the recipe? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4164 "2023-05-25T22:03:24Z")
Isn’t that kind of the point of drones? Since they’re cheap and unmanned, you can afford to just send a half-dozen of them on a mission, and don’t care if the enemy destroys five of them, if the last one accomplishes the mission. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4165 "2023-05-25T22:12:19Z")
If you’re asking why I saw it as eating crow: I had doubted they’d use a drone on such a long mission when there were probably targets more close by, possibly in or near a port. Because yeah, that’s the point of drones, but why hunt so far from Crimea, which is probably a more target rich area? But apparently they knew something I didn’t, and decided to hunt down near the Bosporus. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4166 "2023-05-25T22:24:37Z")
It was mostly intended as a response to Russia’s posturing, “look at us, we took down a drone!”. Yeah, idiots, but you didn’t take down enough of them. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4167 "2023-05-25T22:25:15Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > But apparently they knew something I didn’t, and decided to hunt down near the Bosporus. That’s the one place that every ship traveling north into the Black Sea _has_ to pass. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4168 "2023-05-25T22:39:00Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > That’s the one place that every ship traveling north into the Black Sea _has_ to pass. I thought the Turks weren’t allowing naval ships through. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4169 "2023-05-25T22:59:39Z")
They are allowing warships based in the Black Sea to return. I’m not sure what the circumstances surrounding this ship are. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4170 "2023-05-25T23:00:51Z")
US aid to Ukraine summary to 21 May 2023. (pdf - 3 pages) > **[UKRAINE-FACT-SHEET-MAY-21-2023.PDF](https://media.defense.gov/2023/May/21/2003226658/-1/-1/1/UKRAINE-FACT-SHEET-MAY-21-2023.PDF)** > > 86.78 KB In other news - Report indicates S. Korea to _lend_ 500,000 155mm projectiles to the US. This would allow the US to release more of its 155mm projectiles to Ukraine. Yes, it a “shell” game. > **[South Korea to lend 500,000 rounds of artillery shells to US -report](https://www.reuters.com/world/south-korea-lend-500000-rounds-artillery-shells-us-report-2023-04-12/)** > > South Korea has reached an agreement to lend the United States 500,000 rounds of 155mm artillery shells that could give Washington greater flexibility to supply Ukraine with ammunition, a South Korean newspaper reported on Wednesday. > **[Finland To Send Additional $117 Million In Military Aid To Ukraine](https://www.rferl.org/a/finland-ukraine-military-aid-russia-invasion/32427777.html)** > > Finland on May 24 said it would provide Ukraine with 109 million euros ($117 million) in additional military equipment to include anti-aircraft weapons and ammunition. Total aid from Finland to Ukr. is $1.2 billion. Distinct possibility one Ukrainian drone ships struck the Russian reconnaissance ship _Ivan Khurs_. > **[Drone Boat’s View Of Supposed Attack On Russian Ship Emerges (Updated)](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/drone-boats-view-of-supposed-attack-on-russian-ship-emerges)** > > The mysterious drone boat attack occurred roughly 200 miles from Ukrainian controlled shores, deep in the Black Sea off Turkey. “While there is nothing to suggest these reconnaissance sorties were in any way related to the attack on the Ivan Khurs, it remains the case that a U.S. Air Force RQ-4 Global Hawk drone was patrolling very close to where the incident is supposed to have occurred, possibly in response to the incident.” Image of Ukrainian drone boat. [![](https://images.spot.im/image/upload/q_70,fl_lossy,dpr_3,h_56,w_100,c_scale/v200/8b6c58c28262d4e8bc5430b868374482) ](https://images.spot.im/image/upload/q_70,fl_lossy,dpr_3,h_56,w_100,c_scale/v200/8b6c58c28262d4e8bc5430b868374482) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2023, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4171 "2023-05-26T05:38:41Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Wagner [are handing over their positions in Bakhmut to the regular Army](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/5/25/russia-ukraine-live-saboteurs-accused-of-nuclear-plant-attacks). This would seem to be a good moment for Ukraine to strike. And [Russian prosecutors are asking a court to recognize Nazi crimes during WW2](https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/crime-pmn/russian-prosecutor-asks-court-to-recognize-nazi-ww2-crimes-around-moscow-as-genocide) for some reason. I wonder where the Wagner group will deploy next? What’s the next city they’ll reduce to rubble? I would expect they’ll use the same tactics as Bakhmut. They’ll use himan wave attacks until they slowly overrun the Ukrainians. Doesn’t matter if it takes 10 months and 20,000 dead Wagner fighters. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2023, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4172 "2023-05-26T08:13:57Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I would expect they’ll use the same tactics as Bakhmut. They’ll use himan wave attacks until they slowly overrun the Ukrainians. Perhaps. But Wagner is not Russia’s selective service and can’t just conscript willy-nilly from the Russian populace for the glamorous job of bullet-sponge. Their tactics were to some extent predicated on a substantial supply of highly motivated (read: absolutely desperate) convict “volunteers” fighting for a chance at freedom. But Wagner claimed back in February they were stopping that program. Probably less out of any altruism than running out of physically fit/desperate-enough material to work with. In the meantime those sacrificial lamb waves have been taking absolutely brutal casualties. Putin potentially has a huge sea of mostly worthless Russian reservists he can conscript as bullet-soakers, albeit at whatever risk of mounting internal opposition. But barring that convict corps, Wagner presumably has to pay voluntary signees. Guys fighting for money, unlike convicts fighting for freedom, are usually not as desperate and motivated enough to want to play “how many times can I get blown up charging the entrenched enemy across this open field.” We’ll have to see how long these tactics remain viable for Wagner going forward. ETA: Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe; for they are disunited, ambitious, and without discipline, unfaithful, valiant before friends, cowardly before enemies; they have neither the fear of God nor fidelity to men, and destruction is deferred only so long as the attack is; for in peace one is robbed by them, and in war by the enemy. - Niccolò Machiavelli [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=203) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=205)