# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 210
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2023, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4275 "2023-06-01T23:55:46Z")
Russian casualty figures in Bakhmut according to a western official, via _The New York Times_: > ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4276 "2023-06-02T00:22:34Z")
interesting tweet … > the “kinetics” of this fire is strange … not from a single focus/spot as a missile / bomb hit … but full lenght I have the feeling that we will see the UKR offense starting rather soon, once the RU start to spread their forces out even thinner to protect the motherland … ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4277 "2023-06-02T00:28:03Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > the “kinetics” of this fire is strange … not from a single focus/spot as a missile / bomb hit … but full lenght Just spitballing: Whatever started the fire, perhaps it got up under the roof and the building has no firewalls so it’s spreading laterally as an easy path. Could have a lot of combustible stuff stored up there to fuel it. Just a guess. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4278 "2023-06-02T00:31:08Z")
I believe I saw somewhere that one of the “Russian separatist militias” claimed to have hit the building with Grads, as the BM-21 multiple launch rocket system is called. It fires 122mm rockets, 40 at a time, and is renowned for its accuracy. As in, it doesn’t have any, and it’s renowned for that. The building is big enough that probably most of a volley would hit it, somewhere, but not all in the same place. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4279 "2023-06-02T02:27:11Z")
An effective shotgun. Aimed at a city block you’ll start a lot of separate fires. If the central admin building is big enough it’ll probably absorb several rockets. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4280 "2023-06-02T10:40:18Z")
China [wants everyone to stop sending weapons to Ukraine and engage in peace talks](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/6/2/russia-ukraine-live-over-30-russia-missiles-drones-shot-kyiv). 🤨 What’s their angle? Or is it obvious i.e. pals with Putin? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4281 "2023-06-02T10:58:00Z")
A cease-fire benefits Russia as it lets them rest and retrench. It also benefits China as prolonged Russian occupation of Ukrainian land further legitimizes their claim on “disputed” territory and thereby establishes a precedent which would give China a path toward its own expansionist objectives. More detailed discussion on China’s interests and strategic approach should go in its own thread, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4282 "2023-06-02T11:15:49Z")
Not breaking news, but [Putin is of course trying to get teens to spread his propaganda in Russia as well.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65675102) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4283 "2023-06-02T13:28:07Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > China [wants everyone to stop sending weapons to Ukraine and engage in peace talks](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/6/2/russia-ukraine-live-over-30-russia-missiles-drones-shot-kyiv). 🤨 What’s their angle? Or is it obvious i.e. pals with Putin? As @Cervaise says, we probably need another thread for that. But that has been the stated Chinese position since the day Putin drove across the border into Ukraine. Nothing new here. Nothing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4284 "2023-06-02T13:58:23Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Not breaking news, but [Putin is of course trying to get teens to spread his propaganda in Russia as well.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65675102) Going for a whole “Hello, fellow kids” vibe, I see. > [@](#): > > For example, his video programme for RIA FAN, called “Just A Minute”, continued at least until September 2022, and the latest of his numerous interviews with the outlet is dated February 2023. I wonder if he managed to do it without [hesitation, repetition or deviation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_a_Minute)… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4285 "2023-06-02T15:10:01Z")
China said “stop sending weapons to the battlefield!”. We’ll stop when Russia stops. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4286 "2023-06-02T18:39:59Z")
More fighting inside Russia. It’s going to be interesting to see if these Russian rebels can sustain a hit and run resistance. Link [Pro-Ukrainian forces ‘still fighting in Russia’s Belgorod’ despite Moscow claims | Ukraine | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/02/pro-ukrainian-forces-still-fighting-in-russias-belgorod-despite-moscow-claims) > [@](#): > > Unlike the first major incursion into Belgorod on 22 May, the rebel group acknowledged it had met stiff resistance. “We have active fighting on the outskirts of the village of Novaya Tavolzhanka. Unfortunately, there are wounded legionnaires, but freedom is won through blood,” the legion said in a statement. “All the wounded have already been taken to hospital.” > > The legion posted videos of fighters taking cover behind a brick wall and a tank manoeuvring in what was claimed to be Novaya Tavolzhanka. Another video showed smoke rising over a town alleged to be Shebekino. There was no way to independently confirm the claims. > > In the initial raid in May, a second rebel group with far-right links, the Russian Volunteer Corps, claimed to have been involved. This time, the corps put out a video showing two fighters in some woods saying they were doing reconnaissance and that their followers would soon find out their plan. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4287 "2023-06-02T19:29:06Z")
Wiki’s description of the RVC makes my head hurt. Ethnic Russians living in Ukraine who hate Putin and want to establish a smaller far-right ethnically pure Russia in Russia under Nazi principals. As opposed to the far-right Putin regime that’s trying to establish a larger and therefore less ethnically pure Russia in lots of countries under generic totalitarian but still culturo-ethno- centric principals. Maybe these are the Nazis Putin is looking for. Either that or it’s the conceptual successors to the People’s Judean Front. 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4288 "2023-06-02T19:43:55Z")
The RVC aren’t the _good guys_. But they can be a useful distraction for Putin’s military. Any group that ties up Russian resources helps Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4289 "2023-06-02T19:57:15Z")
Is it time for Maxim 29 yet? > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Ethnic Russians living in Ukraine who hate Putin and want to establish a smaller far-right ethnically pure Russia in Russia under Nazi principals. As opposed to the far-right Putin regime that’s trying to establish a larger and therefore less ethnically pure Russia in lots of countries under generic totalitarian but still culturo-ethno- centric principals. Yep, it’s time… > [@](#): > > MAXIM 29: The enemy of my enemy is my enemy’s enemy. No more. No less. Do hope the Ukrainians remember that… Press on. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4290 "2023-06-02T19:58:59Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Maybe these are the Nazis Putin is looking for. Very much so. Note their leader has been in Ukraine since 2018 and they were at one time loosely associated with the early neo-Nazi elements of the Ukrainian Azov Brigade. Anti-Putin Russian neo-Nazis were absolutely on Putin’s shit list from day one of the invasion, just as much as their Ukrainian counterparts. It’s important to remember that while Putin lied and exaggerated to create reasons for invading Ukraine, his exaggerations were not created in a vacuum. Ukraine did indeed have a bit of a neo-Nazi issue. It just wasn’t nearly the scope Putin claimed. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4291 "2023-06-02T20:01:34Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The RVC aren’t the _good guys_. But they can be a useful distraction for Putin’s military. This is a time-honored saying for a reason: > My enemy’s enemy is my friend. For now. Not that the pipsqueak RVC are in any danger of unseating Putin or of inheriting all of Russia, but none of the various factions and militias and such that are floating around in the dark corners of both the Kremlin and of Russia at large are much better than Putin himself. IOW, there are no “good guys”. Or at least very nearly none. It’s a hell of a note to suggest that post-Putin Russia will be even worse than current version Russia, but that’s the way to bet. Which is not to say that I oppose or will lament regime change whenever / however it happens. Merely that I harbor no Pollyanna-esque illusions that what follows will be materially better. Whether from the West’s POV or that of ordinary rank and file Russians. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4292 "2023-06-02T20:28:41Z")
Perhaps the syllogism should be “_The enemy of my enemy could prove useful_.” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4293 "2023-06-02T20:41:55Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > What’s their angle? Or is it obvious i.e. pals with Putin? China’s “angle” is simply “Ukraine should stop defending itself and just let Russia take it over already.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4294 "2023-06-02T20:43:14Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Maybe these are the Nazis Putin is looking for. Putin is a fascist. As happened before he started as a Right Wing Populist, then turned into a fascist dictator. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=209) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=211)