# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 216
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4395 "2023-06-08T13:41:48Z")
Not propaganda, maybe, but possibly counterintelligence. The dam being burst certainly wasn’t part of their Plan A, and so their plans are definitely changed in light of it, but any competent strategist (which Ukraine has) would have considered the possibility of the Russians breaching the dam, and made contingency plans for that possibility, and those contingency plans would now be being put into effect. Maybe there won’t be the same counteroffensive as originally, but there’s definitely still going to be some counteroffensive. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4396 "2023-06-08T13:58:26Z")
From CNN’s continuing coverage: > Russian forces are shelling “places of evacuation” in Kherson city, according to Ukraine’s Ministry of Internal Affairs. > > The ministry said three people have been injured in the shelling: “a civilian woman, a police officer and a rescuer.” > > ``` > “All are being provided with the necessary assistance. The shelling began during the evacuation of citizens whose homes were flooded,” the ministry said in a Telegram post on Thursday. > > ``` > > “Russia has left people in trouble in the occupied part of Kherson region. And it continues to prevent Ukraine from saving the most valuable - human lives,” it added. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4397 "2023-06-08T15:04:57Z")
This morning I became aware that Russia blew up a Ukranian dam in 1941: > **[78 Years ago, Soviets Blown up Dnieper Hydroelectric Station Dam - Freedom](https://uatv.ua/en/78-years-ago-soviets-blown-dnieper-hydroelectric-station-dam/)** > > Photo from Bundesarchiv On August 18, 1941, 78 years ago, Soviet troops, retreating ... I don’t know what this says about the current situation if anything, but the parallels are…notable. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4398 "2023-06-08T16:02:52Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Red Cross warns Mines are being uprooted in the flood waters. That should make them easier to pickup off the ground. Some will be buried in mud. Mines are rather heavy. Far more will end up buried deeply in the post-flood mess than will be left sitting exposed on the surface for easy retrieval. Unfortunately, to the degree any town wants to bulldoze away the accumulated mud and muck & debris to facilitate rebuilding, they now have an additional “pollutant” in the mess: high explosives. Possibly-damaged high explosives. Not a good situation. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4399 "2023-06-08T17:25:18Z")
Leopard tanks now in combat. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4400 "2023-06-08T17:27:46Z")
If Ukraine is committing their Leopard 2’s, that is where the main counter-attack is falling. Where are these Leopards engaging? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4401 "2023-06-08T17:30:20Z")
Zaporizhzhia Oblast. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4402 "2023-06-08T17:31:40Z")
Along two approaches: one in the direction of Melitipol and the other Mariupol? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4403 "2023-06-08T17:35:52Z")
More towards Melitopol. The Russians released video of a Leopard being destroyed: > ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4404 "2023-06-08T21:43:05Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > If Ukraine is committing their Leopard 2’s, that is where the main counter-attack is falling. Where are these Leopards engaging? Perhaps, but IMO that’s not as certain as all that. They’re great tanks. But they’re relatively few in number, may not yet have all their logistical support up & running well, and the crews are still learning them. If the Ukrainians are feeling confident about them, and if they really bring some missing capability to their tank forces I could see using a few to punch through the worst of Russian defenses then backing off and letting their more traditional, more numerous, equipment exploit the breakthrough. Conversely, if the Ukrainians are less confident, I could see deploying them initially at one of the feint points, or a softer secondary objective to minimize the likelihood of a disappointing first outing trashing their whole offensive. I have not followed the play by play enough in recent weeks to hazard a guess on which is more likely is. Just offering other thought processes that _might_ be in use. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4405 "2023-06-08T22:13:42Z")
_Slate_ says don’t expect much big news in the next few weeks. The counteroffensive is most likely to consist of smaller probing attacks at several points along the front to identify the weak points before committing to a large-scale attack. > **[Ukraine’s Counteroffensive Has Begun. Now What?](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/06/ukraine-counteroffensive-what-success-looks-like.html)** > > Don’t expect any rapid blowouts of Russia’s defensive lines—at least, not yet. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2023, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4406 "2023-06-09T08:52:49Z")
Ukrainian intelligence claims to have intercepted a call between two Russians saying the Russian army only wanted to scare people by blowing up the dam a little bit… (the first “they” in that quote refers to Ukrainians): > > > СБ України @ServiceSsu ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2023, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4407 "2023-06-09T09:29:07Z")
Russia has [allegedly been slow to help people affected by the dam flood](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/9/568), which is doubly sad if they indeed caused it. Sweden will allow NATO troops to station in their country even though they’re not in yet. And another Moscow drone attack. Article [here](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/6/9/live-ukraine-says-four-russian-cruise-missiles-10-drones-downed). ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2023, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4408 "2023-06-09T09:36:27Z")
Couple of articles on the offensive. Summary: hard fighting, Ukrainians take losses, but might be making progress. > **[Ukraine's Big Offensive Kicks Off To Tough Resistance](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraines-big-offensive-kicks-off-to-tough-resistance)** > > With Ukraine's counteroffensive fully underway, there are reports of casualties as it rushes Russian positions in Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk. > **[Ukraine Situation Report: Offensive Brings Claims Of Limited Breakthroughs](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-offensive-brings-claims-of-limited-breathroughs)** > > A number of Russian military reporters' accounts claim Ukraine is beginning to make small gains in Zaporizhzhia Oblast. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2023, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4409 "2023-06-09T14:32:48Z")
Denys claims a Leopard 2 convoy got ambushed. Not a great start. I’ve wondered what sources he relies on. He left Ukraine last winter. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/N85cRT5JWvc/maxresdefault.jpg "Update from Ukraine | The Counterattack Start is not good | Leopard-2 Convoy was Ambushed") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N85cRT5JWvc) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2023, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4410 "2023-06-09T14:37:44Z")
The source in this case is a Russian video posted on Telegram. It can’t be shown on youtube. Denys is blaming the commanders. He must be getting intel from somewhere. It’s very unfortunate to lose Western equipment this soon. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4411 "2023-06-09T19:56:37Z")
I don’t think this proves much. A couple bored guys gossiping about the war. We don’t know if this guy is in a position to know first hand. There should be a paper trail on the explosives. Who made them. Guardian blog > [@](#): > > In the conversation the first speaker starts by saying: “News. Yesterday there was a video in the Telegram channel – a soldier was standing there, his face covered, in his uniform. And he says there is no flooding, that people are living normally. And behind him there is a window and you can see knee-deep water.” > The second speaker says: “It’s funny. Is it about the fact that the hydroelectric power plant was destroyed?” > > The conversation continued: > > > Speaker one: Yeah. The main problem is that the hydropower plant cools their nuclear reactor. > > > > Speaker two: That’s fine. They did it to themselves. It’ll blow up and that’s it. > > > > Speaker one: So our guys did it. It’s not them, it’s ours. > > > > Speaker two: Really, it was ours? They said that the Khokhols [derogatory term for Ukrainians] blew it up. > > > > Speaker one: They didn’t blow it up. Our saboteur group is there. They wanted to cause fear with this dam. It did not go according to the plan. More than they planned. > > > > Speaker two: Yeah, well, naturally. It’s gonna be like Chornobyl, right? > > > > Speaker one: Built in the 1950s. It went down fast, it went down ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4412 "2023-06-09T20:04:06Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > Ukrainian intelligence claims to have intercepted a call between two Russians saying the Russian army only wanted to scare people by blowing up the dam a little bit… Yeah. There’s no “little bit” when you breach a dam. Either you blow a big hole in it, or you blow a little hole in it and the water pressure turns it into a big hole. Clearly, engineering geniuses were involved… not. Wonder if that “sabotage group” was swept away in the flood. Would have served them right if that had happened. > [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Russia has [allegedly been slow to help people affected by the dam flood](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/9/568), which is doubly sad if they indeed caused it. Not sad. It’s criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2023, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4413 "2023-06-09T22:03:25Z")
seems like the UKR went fully russian on the same spot (IIURight, that is the same spot one day later and they lose another good handful of premium equipment) [https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/14583y0/new\_video\_of\_a\_ukrainian\_bradley\_column\_being/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/14583y0/new_video_of_a_ukrainian_bradley_column_being/) not good … I hope they are fast to learn from mistakes … also seems like RU defense doctrine is working quite well … time will tell … ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2023, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4414 "2023-06-09T22:16:05Z")
I think that is video Denys discussed. The Ukrainians rolled into a trap with artillery already dialed in. Lot of valuable armor blown up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=215) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=217)