# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 226
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4600 "2023-06-22T14:13:48Z")
Ukraine might not want to deal with that many prisoners. And there are Russian civilians in Crimea, some of whom might prefer living in Russia to living in Ukraine (which seems to me to be an odd preference at the moment, but I expect some still have it.) It might be easier for Ukraine to deal with the place if people who didn’t want to be under Ukrainian rule found it reasonably easy to get out. Whether this is actually what the people in Ukraine who are making the decisions are thinking, I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4601 "2023-06-22T14:42:40Z")
At the risk of it turning into ethnic cleansing, the Ukrainians probably want as many Russian sympathizers as possible to go home to Mother Russia. The challenge in both Crimea and even more so in Donbas is the number of ethnic Russians, and Russian sympathizers, who have lived in those areas for years, decades, or generations. Ukraine is for many of them the only home they know. Despite having lots of sympathy and ethnic solidarity or the adjacent Old Country their grandparents came from. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4602 "2023-06-22T16:12:01Z")
“Vladimir Saldo threatened to retaliate for the latest attack by targeting a bridge linking neighbouring Moldova with Romania. Romania, a Nato member, and Moldova condemned his comments as unacceptable.” Man, they’re not even trying to hide it now. “How dare you break my nose! Well, I’m going to go over there are break your neighbor’s nose, how do you like that?!?” ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4603 "2023-06-22T16:20:44Z")
And [the Wagner boss is accusing the heads of the army of lying to Putin](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/6/22/russia-ukraine-war-live-missile-attack-damages-crimea-bridge) re: troop losses. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4604 "2023-06-22T16:21:40Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The challenge in both Crimea and even more so in Donbas is the number of ethnic Russians, and Russian sympathizers, who have lived in those areas for years, decades, or generations. Ukraine is for many of them the only home they know. Despite having lots of sympathy and ethnic solidarity or the adjacent Old Country their grandparents came from. I suspect the challenge is less a matter of those who are ethnically Russian (at least some of whom seem to be firmly on the side of Ukraine) and more a matter of those who are Russian sympathizers, especially Russian sympathizers on the specific issue of whether Russia ought to own Ukraine. And I suspect that, having seen the results so far of Russia trying to do so, there may be fewer of the latter than there were before the invasion. But, humans being as we are, I’m sure there are some; and I agree that that’s an inbuilt problem Ukraine will have to deal with – and that they shouldn’t try to deal with it by expelling long-term residents, or possibly even short-term ones, who don’t want to go. As near as I can tell they haven’t so far shown any signs of trying to do so. ETA: allowing people who want to get out of Ukraine to do so is another matter. And I think that in general people who want to leave a country should be allowed to do so (unless trying to evade legitimate prosecution for something they’re individually accused of.) ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4605 "2023-06-22T16:37:55Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > they shouldn’t try to deal with it by expelling long-term residents, or possibly even short-term ones, who don’t want to go. It’s against international law to do so, or at least, contrary to the Helsinki principles and most or all of the various treaties to do with Ukraine’s post-USSR relationship with Russia. It would completely undermine the basis on which the West is backing Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4606 "2023-06-22T16:44:47Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Vladimir Saldo For those who, like me, were wondering “Who the everliving fuck is that?”: > **[Vladimir Saldo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Saldo)** > > Vladimir Vasilyevich Saldo (Russian: Владимир Васильевич Сальдо, Ukrainian: Володимир Васильович Сальдо, romanized: Volodymyr Vasylovych Saldo; born 12 June 1956) is a Ukrainian and Russian politician serving as the acting governor of the collaborationist annexed Kherson Oblast in Russian-occupied Ukraine since 4 October 2022. A member of the ruling United Russia, he previously served as the head of the Kherson military-civilian administration from 26 April to 4 October 2022. > Prior to the in... The Russian puppet governor of Kherson Oblast. His name came up once earlier in this thread, when his deputy suffered a rapid unplanned ~~disassembly~~ reconfiguration last November. > [@Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/410): > > “It is very hard for me to say that Kirill Stremousov died today. He died on the territory of the Kherson region, travelling in a car that got into an accident,” [Vladimir] Saldo, his boss, said. This is why you need to remain calm, and evacuate in an orderly fashion. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4607 "2023-06-22T16:51:21Z")
Yes. That’s part of the reason why they shouldn’t do that. Another part of the reason is that it’s just plain wrong. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4608 "2023-06-22T17:06:51Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > For those who, like me, were wondering “Who the everliving fuck is that?” Thank you for that. I was one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4609 "2023-06-22T18:10:06Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Yes. That’s part of the reason why they shouldn’t do that. > > Another part of the reason is that it’s just plain wrong. I don’t think it’s wrong to expel people who moved into Crimea after Russia seized it. People who have lived in Ukraine all their life and don’t care one way or another for either country should be able to stay. People who want to live in Russia, on the other hand, ought to be given that opportunity, just within Russia rather than within Ukraine. The only reason I do not support expelling _those_ people is that it’s hard to determine who they are. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4610 "2023-06-22T18:13:04Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Man, they’re not even trying to hide it now. “How dare you break my nose! Well, I’m going to go over there are break your neighbor’s nose, how do you like that?!?” The neighbor who has no trespassing signs all over, and is heavily armed. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4611 "2023-06-22T18:16:13Z")
And who has a huge posse of heavily armed friends who have vowed to help kick the ass of anyone who trespasses on any of their properties. Huh. NATO, described that way, sounds like some kind of weird militia. I guess that’s the state of geopolitics. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4612 "2023-06-22T18:17:29Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > ypu can’t leave a living enemy behind you Second rule of dungeon-crawling right after _don’t split the party._ ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4613 "2023-06-22T18:22:39Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I don’t think it’s wrong to expel people who moved into Crimea after Russia seized it. The difficulty is sorting out why. Some of them moved in order to try to take over Crimea. Some of them probably moved, say, to join family members, or to get married, or to take a particular job. > [@Ludovic](#): > > People who want to live in Russia, on the other hand, ought to be given that opportunity, just within Russia rather than within Ukraine. Which is why they should be allowed to leave if they want to. As you say, sorting out the ones who might want to stay as a fifth column, from the ones who want to stay because they prefer Ukraine and really don’t want to live in Russia, from the ones who don’t give a shit who claims to own the place but want to stay there for other reasons: would be entirely impractical. The best it’s possible to do would be to expel specific individuals who had first been convicted of attacking or trying to attack Ukraine – and I’d add who hadn’t been doing so under force of threat during occupation. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4614 "2023-06-22T19:15:43Z")
Sure, you want to give civilians the opportunity to leave Crimea for Russia, if they want. But you don’t need the Kherson bridge for that. Just negotiate a land route for them to travel. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4615 "2023-06-22T21:41:29Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > If you don’t want to click, it’s basically there in the headline. Russian soldiers are becoming ill with cholera. Also, ‘several’ Russian soldiers have died from the disease, according to the Ukrainian source. > > > The military group also said that the suspected cholera outbreak among Putin’s troops was “likely” due to the Russian soldiers drinking water “from open sources” because “there are difficulties with the delivery of bottled or simply purified water to the occupiers” as a result of ongoing flooding. You only have to _boil the water_ to prevent cholera. I’m simply gobsmacked. If you can light a fire to keep warm (and given at least some of these guys survived the winter I assume they can do that) you can boil water. Or, you know… > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > No kidding. If they can’t boil, even a little bleach (8 drops per gallon) will go a long way. Also: > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > But these are nominally trained soldiers who should have been given a minimum of survival training, including making water safe. At the very basic level, it’s not terribly complicated stuff - you’ll get some of it in scout training as boys around here, much less for members of a professional military. I got the basics on purifying water as a Girl Scout over 40 years ago (I did a lot of camping in my youth). This isn’t rocket science. “Don’t drink water you find wherever unless you either boil it or use a chemical purifier”. These days we also have things like Lifestraws, but failing that, a pot (or empty tin can) and enough fire to boil water for a couple minutes works just fine. You might still have sediment or bits o’ stuff in the water, but doing that kills cholera. ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2023, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4616 "2023-06-22T22:16:21Z")
Does the U.S. have another Russian cictizen that Putin wants back? ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2023, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4617 "2023-06-23T05:20:41Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > It might be easier for Ukraine to deal with the place if people who didn’t want to be under Ukrainian rule found it reasonably easy to get out. The Ukrainians might find them handy as fodder to swap for the thousands of Ukrainians kidnapped by the Russians. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2023, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4618 "2023-06-23T14:15:38Z")
There’s usually at least one military leader that emerges in a war. Patton for example in WWII. Ukraine’s future depends on this counter offensive. > **[‘Everything is still ahead’: inside a secret military base with top Ukraine...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/23/everything-is-still-ahead-inside-a-secret-military-base-with-top-ukraine-general)** > > Exclusive: Col Gen Oleksandr Syrskyi details his experience of war and suggests counteroffensive is just gearing up > [@](#): > > It was Syrskyi who led the defence of Kyiv last February and March as Putin’s forces were bearing down on Ukraine’s capital with the mission of decapitating the country’s leadership. He was made a Hero of Ukraine, the country’s highest honour, for his efforts. “He didn’t sleep for three days after 24 February,” says an aide. > > Syrskyi was also credited with the execution of a plan to push Russia’s artillery far enough away from the north-eastern city of Kharkiv to spare civilians who had been living under constant fire, before he was said to have masterminded the counteroffensive that broke through Russian lines and liberated the wider region. > > But, as the Economist recently reported, “Syrskyi’s brilliance faces a momentous challenge”. > > For months, there had been talk of Ukraine’s “spring” counteroffensive. The miracles of the battles for Kyiv, Kharkiv and then the liberation of the north of the Kherson region has made the Ukrainian public, and western capitals, hungry for more glory or at least some revitalising signs that, after 16 months, the war can be won. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2023, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4619 "2023-06-23T14:25:54Z")
The idea that Ukraine benefits more from leaving the Kerch bridge up as an escape route for the Russians that they do from taking the Kerch bridge out as a logistical link for Russian forces in Crimea, Kherson, and Zaporizhzhia is fantasy. Russians can escape from Crimea by ferry/ship quite easily. Shipping adequate heavy military equipment and materiel by the same means is much more problematic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=225) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=227)