# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 236
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4803 "2023-06-25T12:39:18Z")
After a promising start, it may be Ukraine didn’t get any real help out of this bizarro twist. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4804 "2023-06-25T13:03:51Z")
Some questions: Does Wagner Group exist any more? Will Lukashenko accept a foreign mercenary army on his land? Does Prigozhin have the personal funds to finance a private army? Who is now in charge of all the Wagner goings-on in Africa? Will Wagner troops assimilate into the Russian army, in which they will be paid less and be fed worse? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4805 "2023-06-25T13:08:07Z")
Hmm… > [@](#): > > Wow. Wagner Group’s recruiting center in Voronezh has reportedly reopened. [https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1672947736033755140](https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1672947736033755140) > [@](#): > > (Apologies for numerous tweets recently that begin with “wow,” but it’s been a heckuva weekend.) [https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1672947937700184065](https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1672947937700184065) ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_PickleSniffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/77aa72/32.png) [@Fluffy\_PickleSniffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fluffy_PickleSniffer)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4806 "2023-06-25T14:28:01Z")
I’m wondering if Wagner group is simply going to reposition in Belarus and come back into Ukraine from there. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4807 "2023-06-25T14:51:55Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Will Lukashenko accept a foreign mercenary army on his land? I think that the political situation in Belarus may have played a part in this. If Prigozhin continued to Moscow, the uncertainty created might have put Lukashenko in a tight spot that might have caused issues in Belarus. Not sure about this, but it seems reasonable that there is something in this for him. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4808 "2023-06-25T15:17:59Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Does Wagner Group exist any more? […] Will Wagner troops assimilate into the Russian army, in which they will be paid less and be fed worse? Last I heard, and it’s all Twitter-chatter, was that Russia was looking to have the Wagner guys sign up with the Ministry of Defense. Maybe into regular army, maybe as a sort of special forces. While Prigozhin managed to slap Putin and walk away from it, the whole thing ending in under 24hrs with his exile to Belarus doesn’t seem like it’d inspire a ton of recruitment or job offers. But I’m not in the mercenary-hiring business so maybe he’s still the best option for African dictators and the like and the soldiers don’t care so long as they’re led semi-competently and get regular paychecks. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4809 "2023-06-25T15:48:24Z")
The first order for Wagner fighters to sign up with the Ministry of Defence came on June 10th and was signed off by Defence minister Shoigu, Prigozhin’s arch-rival. Prigozhin rejected the order. The order was then confirmed three days later, on the 13th, by Putin himself. The idea of having his Wagner Group power base/private army removed from him is what appears to have been what set Prigozhin on the path of mutiny. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4810 "2023-06-25T16:21:04Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > The idea of having his Wagner Group power base/private army removed from him is what appears to have been what set Prigozhin on the path of mutiny But isn’t that pretty much what just happened anyway? Or did he get to take all, or almost all, his forces to Belarus with him? I’m confused. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4811 "2023-06-25T16:32:19Z")
I think that Prigozhin was either hoping that Putin would get rid of Shoigu and Gerasimov and make him No. 2, which did not happen, at least not immediately, or to become No. 1 himself, but he realized he did not have enough support to take Moscow. How much of Wagner goes with him to Belarus is unclear. Prigozhin is now the king of the anti-elites and anti-elite sentiment in Russia is high. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4812 "2023-06-25T18:14:15Z")
Just some questions… How important is it for Putin to pull from Ukraine the best loyal troops/generals back to Russia to make sure this doesn’t happen again? I’ve also read, if Russia loses, Putin would blame the generals. How important is it for the generals to preserve their best loyal troops for when they day comes the blame is pointed at the general - now that general at least, literally, has a fighting chance with a loyal army. It’s like Prigozhin set a template on how to save your hide. And does this all then become a self-fulling prophecy for Russia to lose. I’m just trying to find any upside for Ukraine in all this, but I’m not at clear what all this even was. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4813 "2023-06-25T18:32:37Z")
> [@Toxylon](#): > > After a promising start, it may be Ukraine didn’t get any real help out of this bizarro twist. At the very least, Wagner is off of the board, now. Most of their personnel and materiel will be absorbed into the regular Russian forces, but one thing that this war has taught us is that a military is more than the sum of its personnel and materiel. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4814 "2023-06-25T18:33:44Z")
Supposedly [the deal struck yesterday](https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/25/europe/russia-prigozhin-wagner-insurrection-belarus-explainer-intl-hnk/index.html) included Wagner fighters signing over. > The deal includes Prigozhin pulling back his troops from their march toward the capital, said a Kremlin spokesperson on Saturday. > > The criminal charges against him will be dropped, said the spokesperson. Wagner fighters will face no legal action for their part in the insurrection, and will instead sign contracts with Russia’s Ministry of Defense – a move Prigozhin had previously rejected as an attempt to bring his paramilitary force in line. Granted, that could be interpreted to mean only the fighters who actively took part in the coup would sign on and not any who didn’t (or maybe even are in Wagner missions in Africa, etc) ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4815 "2023-06-25T18:41:18Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Prigozhin is now the king of the anti-elites and anti-elite sentiment in Russia is high. Q: does anybody have friends or family in RU? … how much of a big-thing was it there? My (uneducated) guess: the media did play it down / minimize broadcasts of the whole thing … just wondering … was it J/6th broadcast or did it make it to page 7 or so … ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4816 "2023-06-25T19:17:55Z")
I can tell you not everybody _assumed_ nothing was going to happen (NB there is _some_ independent media in Russia, and in any case people there saw the same videos and public statements everybody else did), and in fact there were visible indications of unusual events like the Kremlin being closed to visitors and military-looking equipment and police visible around Moscow that were quite worrying to people who live there. As for the quote, I already mentioned that, yes, there are plenty of Russians who have “anti-elite” or just plain right-wing sentiments. Not exactly a phenomenon unique to Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4817 "2023-06-25T19:35:00Z")
Putin’s anti-mutiny speech was broadcast live (?) on television. The mutiny is discussed on the Russian state TV talk shows: > [@](#): > > In his flagship Sunday night news show, state TV’s Dmitry Kiselyov claimed the resolution to the Wagner mutiny demonstrated that Russia is a united nation > > He also dug up an old clip of Putin saying that he is able to forgive many things, but not “betrayal” [https://twitter.com/francis\_scarr/status/1672984185596772352](https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1672984185596772352) > [@](#): > > Tonight on Vladimir Solovyov’s show, Russian MP Andrei Gurulyov says Yevgeny Prigozhin and Dmitry Utkin should be executed > > “There’s no other option,” he adds [https://twitter.com/francis\_scarr/status/1673025924512481281](https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1673025924512481281) ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4818 "2023-06-25T19:39:36Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > … there are plenty of Russians who have “anti-elite” or just plain right-wing sentiments. Or left-wing, communist/Soviet even. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4819 "2023-06-25T21:05:48Z")
Has anything been heard from Prigozhin since he was seen getting into the car in Rostov 24 hrs (ish) ago? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4820 "2023-06-25T21:06:52Z")
He should probably not accept any free rides in a submersible… ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4821 "2023-06-25T21:37:56Z")
> [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > Has anything been heard from Prigozhin since he was seen getting into the car in Rostov 24 hrs (ish) ago? Posted nine hours ago: > [@](#): > > Prigozhin’s spokespeople tell RTVI journalists that he’s still unavailable for comment but will start responding to the press (probably with more of his patented audio clips on Telegram) once he’s got normal comms again. [https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1672940857153015808](https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1672940857153015808) We will await proof of life indicators. Nothing new on his Telegram yet. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4822 "2023-06-25T21:44:22Z")
You don’t need a crystal ball to predict a strong crackdown inside Russia. Anyone suspected of aligning with Prigozhin is in serious trouble. > **[Russia: Wagner mutiny shows real cracks in Putin authority - US](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66014141)** > > Top US diplomat Antony Blinken says an attempted rebellion was a "direct challenge" to President Putin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=235) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=237)