# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 242
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4924 "2023-06-30T01:13:49Z")
Is that bank lady “falling” out of her window war related? not seeing the connection. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4925 "2023-06-30T01:21:52Z")
**Moderating:** OK, please don’t go meta here. leave the moderating to the mods. But lets drop the Banker out of the window stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4926 "2023-06-30T01:37:28Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > But lets drop the Banker out of the window stuff. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4927 "2023-06-30T01:39:27Z")
I just had a Ukraine war-related article I found, but it’s from May so never mind. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4928 "2023-06-30T02:21:53Z")
The Russians **targeted** a pizza restaurant in Kramatorsk. I had assumed it was a dumb bomb that was badly aimed. But a traitor provided the targeting information. Fucking animals. > **[Kramatorsk: Alleged Russian spy to be charged over deadly strike](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66045197)** > > The man allegedly sent footage of the restaurant to Russia's military before it was destroyed. > [@](#): > > Twelve people, including three teenagers, were killed in Tuesday’s missile strike on a popular restaurant. > > Ukraine said the man, a resident of Kramatorsk, sent video footage of the restaurant to the Russian military hours before it was destroyed. > > Fourteen-year-old twin sisters Yuliya and Anna Aksenchenko and a 17-year-old girl were among those killed. > **skip** > At least 60 others were injured, including Colombian nationals and a leading Ukrainian writer [https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/28/europe/kramatorsk-deadly-strike-ukraine-war-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/28/europe/kramatorsk-deadly-strike-ukraine-war-intl/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4929 "2023-06-30T03:59:26Z")
reports that General Surovikin has been arrested for possible complicity with Wagner march. Also speculation about a detailed purge in the Russian armed forces, to identify those who were sympathetic to Wagner > **[Russia holds General Sergei Surovikin over Wagner mutiny: Reports](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/29/russia-holds-general-sergei-surovikin-over-wagner-mutiny-reports)** > > The Moscow Times Russian-language service and a military blogger reported Surovikin’s arrest over links to Wagner force. ETA: CNN reports that Surovikin may have been a VIP member of Wagner group. > **[After the short-lived insurrection, questions swirl over top Russian...](https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/29/europe/russia-surovikin-prigozhin-questions-intl/index.html)** > > One is known as “General Armageddon,” the other as “Putin’s chef.” Both have a checkered past and a reputation for brutality. One launched the insurrection, the other reportedly knew about it in advance. And right now, both are nowhere to be found. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4930 "2023-06-30T09:41:20Z")
One has to wonder whether in the end the number of Russians killed by Russia in some way will outnumber the number of Russians killed by Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4931 "2023-06-30T10:52:14Z")
I don’t aee this as good news. I doubt the Russians will withdraw from Zaporizhzhia without doing something to that nuclear plant. A power plant is too important an asset to leave behind for Ukraine to use. Guardian Blog > [@](#): > > ## Russia reducing number of personnel at Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant – reports > > **Russia is gradually reducing the number of personnel at the occupied Zaporizhzhia nuclear power station in southern [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine), Ukraine’s military intelligence agency said on Friday.** > > “According to the latest data, the occupation contingent is gradually leaving the territory of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant,” the main directorate of intelligence at the defence ministry (GUR) said on the Telegram messaging app. > > GUR said that among the first to leave the nuclear power station were three employees of Russian state nuclear firm Rosatom who had been “in charge of the Russians’ activities”, Reuters reports. > > It said Ukrainian employees who had signed a contract with Rosatom had also been advised to depart. Employees should leave by 5 July, it said, and had been told to preferably head for the Crimea peninsula, which Russia illegally seized from Ukraine in 2014. > > GUR said the number of military patrols was also gradually decreasing on the plant’s vast territory and in the nearby city of Enerhodar, and that personnel remaining at the plant had been told to blame Ukraine “in case of any emergency situations”. > > Russian authorities declined to comment on the claims when approached by Reuters. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4932 "2023-06-30T11:47:22Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The Russians **targeted** a pizza restaurant in Kramatorsk. I had assumed it was a dumb bomb that was badly aimed. But a traitor provided the targeting information. > > Fucking animals. Be careful. During the Iraq and Afghan invasions and conquests (well 1 for 2) the USA unwittingly blew up an awful lot of innocent people on the say-so of some local who had a score to settle with some other local. Trusting the veracity of locals is always tricky biz. Especially when you control the Thor hammer they’d love to have you wield to their benefit. It took far longer than it should have for the US intel & targeting teams to learn that lesson. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4933 "2023-06-30T12:22:23Z")
I know the Russians shell residential and business areas. What gets hit is random. That’s pretty bad. Targeting a restaurant with a missile has more malicious intent. There’s families there. It bothers me more. You make a good point that we don’t know the motives behind the person that reported that location to the Russians. Creating terror within Ukraine is part of Russian strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4934 "2023-06-30T12:40:10Z")
I still don’t get the pizza thing. OK, deliberately going after civilian targets just because you’re an evil bastard who wants to cause unnecessary pain: I can see that (not agree with it, of course, but I can see that there are people for whom that would be a motivation). But even given that, why specifically target a specific restaurant? If the goal is just to hurt civilians, then most civilian targets would be as good as a restaurant. Why not target a residential neighborhood, or a school, or a hospital (all of which are bigger targets, and so also easier to hit)? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4935 "2023-06-30T12:46:57Z")
Because they claimed off-duty soldiers also ate there. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4936 "2023-06-30T12:50:39Z")
ETA: ninja’ed. In more detail … 1. Mr. Russian sympathizer hates the pizza joint because the owner is mean to him. Or the pizza doesn’t have enough anchovies. Or … 2. Mr. Russian sympathizer sends vid and a message to credulous Russian intel: “the local mayor and police chief and a bunch of Ukrainian guerillas eat here every day at 5pm.” 3. Lt. Ivanov of intel sends the coordinates and target time over to the Air Force along with an explanation “Confirmed enemy C&C node”. 4. Boom! Dead pizza joint. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4937 "2023-06-30T13:16:08Z")
OK, that… does actually make sense. It’s probably stupid to trust that your informer is reliable and accurate, but if you have intelligence that a pizza parlor is in fact a meeting place for C&C, then it’s a reasonable strategic target. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4938 "2023-06-30T14:08:39Z")
We should expect Russia to sabotage/blow up the nuclear power plant as soon as Ukr forces get near. In fact, I think there’s been reporting that explosive charges were observed being rigged by Russians at the power plant, just like they did on the Nova Kakhovka dam. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4939 "2023-06-30T14:38:01Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > We should expect Russia to sabotage/blow up the nuclear power plant as soon as Ukr forces get near. Prevailing winds would put most of the fallout in Russia proper. I would hope that any sabotage wouldn’t directly involve the reactors. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4940 "2023-06-30T15:05:40Z")
Yes, much like when they blew the dam and ended up flooding out some of their own forces. As much as I’d like to believe enlightened self-interest would prevent them from blowing up the nuclear power plant, I’m far from convinced that sort of logic applies to the Russian MoD’s thinking. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4941 "2023-06-30T16:48:35Z")
The only “Russia” that matters is wherever the MoD, General Staff, and Putin happen to be at the moment. The rest is expendable for any reason, including spite. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4942 "2023-06-30T19:13:13Z")
They’re going to blame the Ukrainians for it. A little or even a lot of collateral damage in Russia that Ukraine is to blame for is probably seen by Putin as a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/4943 "2023-06-30T23:19:17Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I doubt the Russians will withdraw from Zaporizhzhia without doing something to that nuclear plant. A power plant is too important an asset to leave behind for Ukraine to use. Chances are extremely good there’s a bomb installed somewhere in the plant. Just like the dam. If Ukraine has some kind of special forces, they might try a quick strike operation to seize the plant to try to forestall that bomb from being exploded. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=241) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=243)