# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 251
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5105 "2023-07-13T16:55:45Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Are the washing machine thefts because the Russian soldiers are looting consumer items? Or is the Russian military harvesting useful computer chips from them? Washing machines might have chips in them… but there are a lot of more portable things that have chips in them, too. If they were just after the chips, you’d think they would just break off the control panel and steal that (easy enough if you don’t care about the condition of what’s left), and leave behind the heavy tub, motor, plumbing, and frame. I think they’re really after the washing machines. We’ve forgotten, in the past century, just how much of a luxury those things are. Remember, the closest we ever came to a President-for-life in this country, was so popular largely because he made washing machines available to all. > [@SunUp](#): > > Russia is not autarkous - it doesn’t produce everything it needs. (I’m not sure any nation is anymore.) I’m sure no nation any more DOES produce everything it needs, but I expect that most of the functional ones CAN. It’d cost more, but if we really needed to, we could scrimp to afford it. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5106 "2023-07-13T17:06:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > the closest we ever came to a President-for-life in this country FDR _was_ president for life. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5107 "2023-07-13T18:31:49Z")
So was JFK. And Lincoln. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5108 "2023-07-13T19:24:26Z")
Breaking News thread. Reminder ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5109 "2023-07-13T20:40:44Z")
Are you saying Abe Lincoln’s assassination isn’t breaking news? Meanwhile, Putin continues to throw a strop about the Black Sea grain deal, claiming that it has only benefitted Ukraine and that Russia wants to export fertilizer which is not included in the agreement. The threat to withdraw from the deal is [causing some anxiety elsewhere](https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-07-13-23/h_46700a2f46c96a7732863e1cc07b8599). > [@](#): > > European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen on Thursday urged Russian President Vladimir Putin to prolong a deal allowing the Black Sea export of Ukrainian grain — stressing that failure to do so would lead to global food insecurity. > > > “The world needs it. Russia has a responsibility to prolong it, otherwise, global food insecurity would be the consequence. So now the ball is in President Putin’s court, and the world is watching,” von der Leyen said. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5110 "2023-07-13T22:52:26Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Are the washing machine thefts because the Russian soldiers are looting consumer items? Or is the Russian military harvesting useful computer chips from them? No reason it can’t be both. With a side of wanton vandalism. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5111 "2023-07-13T22:55:42Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen on Thursday urged Russian President Vladimir Putin to prolong a deal allowing the Black Sea export of Ukrainian grain — stressing that failure to do so would lead to global food insecurity. > > > “The world needs it. Russia has a responsibility to prolong it, otherwise, global food insecurity would be the consequence. So now the ball is in President Putin’s court, and the world is watching,” von der Leyen said. Yeah, the problem is, von der Leyen, that Russia might find global food insecurity an attractive prospect at this point… ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5112 "2023-07-14T06:06:52Z")
As an EU resident, I believe this statement is not really a caution to Putin (because he’s going to do what he’s going to do) but is rather primarily intended for domestic political purpose, to remind the new batch of Putin-aligned authoritarians currently making waves in EU countries who they’re actually in bed with. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5113 "2023-07-14T14:40:36Z")
Erdogan says Putin has agreed to extend Black Sea grain deal. Unclear whether Putin knows this yet. > Fool me once… > ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5114 "2023-07-14T17:23:06Z")
Yes Thanks to Putin, leaders across the spectrum are reminded that the world consists of 3 or 4 teams\*. Choose wisely or suffer accordingly. * * * \* West, Russia, China, or truly non-aligned. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2023, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5115 "2023-07-15T07:37:42Z")
Well, make of this what you will > **[Putin says he tried but failed to oust Prigozhin after Wagner mutiny](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/14/putin-says-he-tried-but-failed-to-oust-prigozhin-after-wagner-mutiny-figters-ukarine-war)** > > President tells newspaper he met mercenary chief to negotiate terms for fighters’ continued participation in Ukraine war ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2023, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5116 "2023-07-15T12:09:13Z")
The Russian propaganda is cranked up and smearing Prigozhin. He looks very fit for his age. > **[Photo of Exiled Wagner Boss Prigozhin in His Undies Surfaces](https://news.yahoo.com/photo-exiled-wagner-boss-prigozhin-045045089.html?ref=upstract.com)** > > A Telegram channel affiliated with Prigozhin claims the “unusual” picture was taken earlier this week. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2023, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5117 "2023-07-15T13:43:45Z")
[Wagner fighters are now showing up in Belarus.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66211121) Maybe there was some attempt at a reconciliation that fell through so they’re make space from Putin? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2023, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5118 "2023-07-16T13:29:20Z")
I suspect there’s a plan for the Wagner group. They will rest and rebuild. Maybe they will spearhead a fresh attack at Kiev? I seen news that Poland is increasing their defenses. A unit that experienced is always a threat. Unless they’re unarmed. 😉 I’m skeptical about this report. > **[Russian defence ministry says Wagner handing over weapons](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/13/russian-defence-ministry-says-wagner-handing-over-weapons)** > > Move comes two weeks after private army group launched an unprecedented, but ultimately short-lived, mutiny. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2023, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5119 "2023-07-16T14:17:45Z")
“Fresh attack at Kiev”? Russia might as well launch a fresh attack at Paris – they’re about equally likely to succeed. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2023, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5120 "2023-07-16T14:53:43Z")
I think Wagner has a plan to attack somewhere. Maybe not Kiev. But they aren’t staying together and training for nothing. It’s concerning that a well rested force could be fighting Ukrainian troops that haven’t been rotated. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5121 "2023-07-16T15:14:19Z")
Putin has warned Ukraine not to use cluster munitions: > [@](#): > > “Russia has a sufficient supply of various types of cluster munitions,” the Russian leader said during an interview with a pro-Kremlin journalist. > > “If they are used against us, we reserve the right to mirror actions.” [https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/16/europe/putin-cluster-munitions-ukraine-intl/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/16/europe/putin-cluster-munitions-ukraine-intl/index.html) Oh look, here’s Russia using cluster munitions against Ukraine, in a city no less, in 2022: [https://twitter.com/maria\_avdv/status/1680496658138779648](https://twitter.com/maria_avdv/status/1680496658138779648) [https://twitter.com/maria\_avdv/status/1680497621549342720](https://twitter.com/maria_avdv/status/1680497621549342720) In fact, Russia has already used cluster munitions in Ukraine hundreds of times: > **[Use of cluster munitions in the Russian invasion of Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_cluster_munitions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine)** > > The use of cluster munitions during the Russian invasion of Ukraine (2022–present) has been recorded by a number of eyewitnesses and journalists, as well as representatives of the UN, humanitarian and public organizations. In particular, the head of the UN Human Rights Council, Michelle Bachelet, reported on March 30 at least 24 cases since the beginning of the invasion. As of July 1, hundreds of attacks by Russian forces with cluster munitions have already been recorded in the settleme Neith... ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5122 "2023-07-16T15:53:25Z")
Why do people insist on beating this ‘new attack from the north’ drum? Russia tried attacking from the north using a significant portion of their army, supported by masses of armoured vehicles, artillery, and aerial assets. Ukraine successfully warded off that attack using thrown-together formations of poorly-armed Territorial Defense Force units who had no time to establish proper defensive formations. Any new attack from Belarus, be it by Wagner or regular Russian Army forces, will require a massive buildup of forces that will be seen by surveillance satellites weeks or months in advance. Ukraine has prepared defensive positions and will have time to man them with experienced combat forces. Ukraine probably wishes Russia would actually try something like this, because for it to be a credible threat they’d need to transfer significant portions of the forces currently in Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk to the north, creating an opportunity for Ukrainian breakthroughs in those sectors. I’d like their chances of holding the line in the north while gobbling up chunks of territory in the south and east. Remember that Wagner is not some uniquely terrifying combat formation. Their relative success around Bakhmut (which took less territory in 13 months than the “failed” Ukrainian counteroffensive has taken in the past month) was predicated on 1) massive artillery support, and 2) inhuman lack of concern for casualties among their convict recruits. This allowed for a slow grinding advance where they utterly destroyed the Ukrainian positions in front of them and then occupied the rubble left behind. It is not a recipe for advancing 120km from the Belorusian border to Kyiv, or even the 50km to Chernihiv. Wagner in Belarus is a greater threat to Lukashenko than it is to Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2023, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5123 "2023-07-16T17:03:41Z")
Putin’s schtick of “Don’t do that, or I’ll be forced to do what I’m doing anyway” has almost a Monty Python vibe to it. I just can’t decide if it’s more the Frenchmen taunting a second time, or the Black Knight. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2023, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5124 "2023-07-16T17:07:30Z")
“Any more attacks on Russian soil and I will be forced to invade Ukraine!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=250) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=252)