# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 255
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5185 "2023-07-19T07:48:43Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > My question is -What is the role of Crimean vacations in Russian society? Are the vacationers there just doing a typical family trip to a sea shore, like Americans going to Disneyland? Or is it a cultural and political thing that Putin encourages, to show Russian ownership of Crimea ? Look at a map of Russia. How many other warm water shorelines do you see? If it’s the only beach in a country of 143 million people, then of course people will want to go there, war or no war. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5186 "2023-07-19T09:11:52Z")
**Moderating:** And that is enough about the beaches of Crimea. New thread please if you want to continue. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5187 "2023-07-19T10:12:53Z")
[A major explosion at a munitions depot in Crimea apparently caused by Ukrainian strikes](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66242446). This comes at the same time as a large Russian assault on Odessa, which itself was called a “ mass revenge strike” for the damage done to the Kerch bridge. Also [Russia has been seizing the assets of “unfriendly” countries that have halted their operations in the country.](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66241315) Anything to keep the war machine going, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5188 "2023-07-19T10:56:26Z")
how does the SD read the “russians cruise missiled the cemetery in Odessa”? are their cruise missiles so unprecise (to a degree of really not being very helpful) … i cannot fathom this being the planned destination… … _unless they went for the headline “Cruise missile impacts Odessa, hundrets of deaths found around te impact crater”_ ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5189 "2023-07-19T11:01:32Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Also [Russia has been seizing the assets of “unfriendly” countries that have halted their operations in the country.](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66241315) To be fair, suddenly seizing the assets of Western corporations on the flimsiest of excuses has been standard practice by Putin for his entire tenure. This is nothing new. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5190 "2023-07-19T11:35:42Z")
I wasn’t aware of that fact. Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5191 "2023-07-19T13:06:56Z")
The bridge damage has already backed up traffic. Now 2000 have to be evacuated and another road is temporarily closed. This reminds civilians that the war isn’t going well for Russia. The tourists will return home and spread the news throughout Russia. Link [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66242446](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66242446) > [@](#): > > More than 2,000 residents are being evacuated from four villages in Russian-occupied Crimea after a fire that triggered hours of explosions at a nearby ammunition depot. > > Russian-installed officials also shut a stretch of the motorway that crosses the southern half of the peninsula. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5192 "2023-07-19T14:21:57Z")
[Prigozhin Is welcoming a lot of Wagner fighters officially into Belarus.](https://www.thedailybeast.com/wagner-boss-yevgeny-prigozhin-were-not-done-in-africa) I wonder what “disgrace” he’s talking about on the Russian front lines? Lack of ammo? ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5193 "2023-07-19T21:30:03Z")
Latest US aid package. Unlike Presidential Drawdown authority, which DoD has continued to utilize to deliver equipment to Ukraine from DoD stocks at a historic pace, USAI is an authority under which the United States procures capabilities from industry or partners to then send to Ukraine. The capabilities in this announcement, which totals $1.3 billion, include: 1. Four National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems (NASAMS) and munitions; 2. 152mm artillery rounds; 3. Mine clearing equipment; 4. Tube-Launched, Optically-Tracked, Wire-Guided (TOW) missiles; 5. Phoenix Ghost and Switchblade Unmanned Aerial Systems (UAS); 6. Precision aerial munitions; 7. Counter-UAS and electronic warfare detection equipment; 8. 150 fuel trucks; 9. 115 tactical vehicles to tow and haul equipment; 10. 50 tactical vehicles to recover equipment; 11. Port and harbor security equipment; 12. Tactical secure communications systems; 13. Support for training, maintenance, and sustainment activities.[Biden Administration Announces Additional Security Assistance for Ukraine \> U.S. Department of Defense \> Release](https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3463890/biden-administration-announces-additional-security-assistance-for-ukraine/) ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5194 "2023-07-19T21:33:43Z")
Russia, the state that cries “terrorism” when its own military-related targets are struck, has launched attacks on Odesa grain terminals and port infrastructure. > **[Ukraine war: Russia strikes Ukraine grain after ending sea deal](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66242446)** > > Attacks on Black Sea ports destroy 60,000 tonnes of grain and damage infrastructure, officials say. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5195 "2023-07-19T22:56:52Z")
One of the problems with this situation is that some of the RU/UA borders are strictly survey lines with no substantial geographical reference. Most of Europe does not rely on non-geogrphical borders, and it is difficult to imagine this special military operation resolving satisfactoriily while leaving lines-between-wheatfields to mark the difference between what is Ukrainian Donetsk and Russian Rostov / Voronezh. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5196 "2023-07-20T11:55:35Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Russia, the state that cries “terrorism” when its own military-related targets are struck, has launched attacks on Odesa grain terminals and port infrastructure. And Zelenskyy sends the message, “Hey, China? This hurts you too!” > 60,000 tonnes of agricultural products destroyed by Russian missiles were to be sent to China – Zelenskyy > **[60,000 tonnes of agricultural products destroyed by Russian missiles were to...](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/19/7412066/)** > > 60,000 tonnes of agricultural products destroyed by Russias missile strikes on Odesa Oblast on the night of 18-19 July were to be delivered to China. Might be propaganda on his part, but screw it, take that 60,000 tonnes out of China’s part, no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5197 "2023-07-20T20:01:43Z")
Here is a fairly lengthy link with a headline that seems appropriate: “sobering”: They make it seem like the war will go on for a long,long time. > **[A Sobering Analysis Of Ukraine's Counteroffensive From The Front](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/a-sobering-analysis-of-ukraines-counteroffensive-from-the-front)** > > A military analyst just returned from touring the Ukraine front and has offered his blunt take on how the counteroffensive is really going. The link is from “the Institute for International Strategic Studies” and “the Center for New American Security,”\*\* > [@](#): > > Ukraine is struggling with how to employ its forces. Once in the fight, they sometimes display poor tactics and a lack of coordination between units. All while having to cope with a still deeply entrenched bureaucracy, infighting and a continued reliance on “Soviet-style thinking.” Then there are the Russians, who are “putting up stiff resistance.” > [@](#): > > the narrative that Ukrainian progress thus far is slow just because of a lack of weapons deliveries and support is monocausal and is not shared by those we spoke to actually fighting and exercising command on the frontline > [@](#): > > Minefields are a problem as most observers know. But much more impactful than the minefields on Ukraine’s ability to break through Russian defenses is Ukraine’s inability to conduct complex combined arms operations at scale. Lack of a comprehensive combined arms approach at scale makes Ukrainian forces more vulnerable to Russian ATGMs, artillery etc. while advancing. So it’s not just about equipment. There’s simply no systematic pulling apart of the Russian defensive system > [@](#): > > even the United States Armed Forces would have a very difficult time breaking through these defensive layers because no Western military in the world currently has any experience in breaching the types of defenses in depth that the Russians put up (I assume that this last quote assumes that the US ground forces would have a difficult time. As if the US army would not use its air power. But since Ukraine has no real air force, maybe the comparison is okay) – \*\* Both of these are organizations that I know nothing about . A quick google doesn’t provide much help, (vague descriptions such as “a non-partisan think tank”)–but they do seem to be reasonable sources.(some connections with C-span, none with Foxnews) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5198 "2023-07-20T20:41:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Once in the fight, they sometimes display poor tactics and a lack of coordination between units. Has there ever, anywhere or anywhen in history, been a military force for which this is not a true statement? Don’t give me truisms; give me numbers. Is this problem any worse for Ukraine than anywhere else? How much worse? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5199 "2023-07-21T00:21:19Z")
Ukraine needs paratroopers. Avoid the defensive fortifications by dropping troops in the rear. Then attack from both directions. General Schwarzkopf used a pincer attack from the rear. Except he didn’t use paratroopers. It did require incredible combined forces coordination. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5200 "2023-07-21T00:25:59Z")
You’ve apparently missed the fact that ground-based air defense is dominating the air war in this conflict. Trying to fly troop transports into a position where they could parachute into the enemy’s rear would be a good way to kill a bunch of paratroopers in a Pantsir or Buk fireball. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5201 "2023-07-21T00:35:31Z")
That could be a problem. 😉 This war will probably drag on for years. It seems extremely unlikely Russian forces will ever totally withdraw. Ukraine will have to claw back whatever territory they can get. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5202 "2023-07-21T00:41:22Z")
As was learned in WWI and several times since then, modern warfare favors the defense and almost always devolves into attrition. The Gulf wars were the exception. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5203 "2023-07-21T14:14:31Z")
Russian ultranationalist, Donbas war instigator and indicted war criminal Igor “Strelkov” Girkin, who has been highly critical of Russia’s performance in the war, has finally been arrested. While Girkin is an extremist, “extremism” in the Russian sense means being critical of Putin. > ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5204 "2023-07-21T14:18:40Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Russian ultranationalist, Donbas war instigator and indicted war criminal Igor “Strelkov” Girkin, who has been highly critical of Russia’s performance in the war, has finally been arrested. ‘Я никогда не думал, что леопарды съедят _мое_ лицо!’ (I never thought leopards would eat _my_ face!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=254) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=256)