# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 288
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5850 "2023-09-15T18:44:37Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Yes, it strikes me as odd. Is it that neither side has enough armoured vehicles to overrun the trenches? That the anti-tank weoponry has made tanks less effective? Why has trench warfare made a come-back here? It’s two-fold. First, the anti-tank weaponry, particularly the man-portable ATGMs but also precision-guided artillery, combined with the blanket surveillance via drones with thermal optics etc make the battlefield a very dangerous place for armoured vehicles. Second, because the lines have been so static, they have become extremely heavily mined. There’ve been large numbers of losses resulting from a sequence: 1)tank or IFV hits mine, track breaks, vehicle intact but immobile, 2) crew abandons immobile vehicle, 3) quadcopter drone drops grenade through hatch and vehicle becomes a total loss, or 3a) artillery hits stationary vehicle for same effect. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5851 "2023-09-15T18:59:31Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > They almost took out a Russian helicopter recently: Sometimes, “Almost” is enough. Picture trying to land an air cavalry unit during a battle, if there’s a swarm of drones loitering in the area. You _have_ to slow down to deploy the troops, but as soon as you do, the drones can attack. Putting every pilot on edge about drone attacks right when they’re doing the most difficult part of their mission could seriously disrupt such an assault. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5852 "2023-09-15T19:01:19Z")
Ramzan Kadyrov is reported to be in a coma and in critical condition. > **[‘Putin’s Attack Dog’ Kadyrov Reportedly in Critical Condition](https://www.thedailybeast.com/ramzan-kadyrov-chechen-leader-and-putin-ally-is-reportedly-in-critical-condition)** > > The ardent Kremlin loyalist reportedly fell into a coma before his condition drastically “worsened,” according to Ukrainian intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5853 "2023-09-15T21:13:39Z")
what … just 9 months after doing 35 pushups on tik-tok??? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5854 "2023-09-15T21:31:17Z")
A reminder that Mother Nature gets a vote in all these folks’ lives, even the mst important or infamous ones. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5855 "2023-09-15T21:50:23Z")
There are also reports that he had his doctor buried alive a year ago, because he thought his ill-health was the result of being poisoned by his doctor. Recent pictures show Kadyrov with a bloated face, unlike his previous lean appearance, with speculation of serious kidney disorder. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5856 "2023-09-15T22:03:28Z")
Per that article Kadyrov himself had publicly spoken or posted about liver & kidney difficulties. Though not specifically what the problem was, or perhaps much more interestingly, why he had it. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5857 "2023-09-15T22:56:34Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > It’s two-fold. First, the anti-tank weaponry, particularly the man-portable ATGMs but also precision-guided artillery, combined with the blanket surveillance via drones with thermal optics etc make the battlefield a very dangerous place for armoured vehicles. Second, because the lines have been so static, they have become extremely heavily mined. To add on to an excellent post: Most of the explosive clearance vehicles/devices shootout via rocket motor a line of attached C4/explosive blocks. The detonation clears a narrow path around 100 meters long. The minefields encountered were 500 meters in depth (a lot of f@$#ing mines). You get stuck 20% through, the mineplow in front of you gets disabled; your armor attack now looks like the Russian columns trying to descend on Kiev. Stuck on a narrow path with mines (not mud) on all sides, ATGMs, helicopters, and artillery incoming. Armor needs maneuver room to conduct a breakthrough. Constrain it to a location, it becomes a target. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5858 "2023-09-16T03:13:56Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > > [@The Daily Beast – 15 Sep 23](#): > > > > The ardent Kremlin loyalist reportedly fell into a coma … Was it under a window? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5859 "2023-09-16T12:15:19Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Yes, it strikes me as odd. Is it that neither side has enough armoured vehicles to overrun the trenches? That the anti-tank weoponry has made tanks less effective? Why has trench warfare made a come-back here? This war has validated decades of military Science Fiction writers who have cleverly contrived ways of having combatants use historical ground tactics in an age of spaceships, superbombs, and other high tech. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5860 "2023-09-16T12:34:48Z")
Given the right circumstances modern soldiers could wind up throwing rocks. Tactics change with circumstance as well as technology. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5861 "2023-09-16T12:52:33Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > That bridge will come down eventually My guess is that they’re waiting to target the bridge until just after ground forces finally finish cutting off the land corridor. Between cruise missiles and torpedo drones, they could probably take it down now, but if they did, it still wouldn’t isolate Crimea, and it’d be repaired. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Yes, it strikes me as odd. Is it that neither side has enough armoured vehicles to overrun the trenches? That the anti-tank weoponry has made tanks less effective? Why has trench warfare made a come-back here? As I understand it, trench warfare went away because of air support. But here, both sides have much stronger anti-air than they have air forces, so air support hasn’t been very relevant. Yet. But if Crimean missiles can take out Russian air-defense sites, then that changes. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Given the right circumstances modern soldiers could wind up throwing rocks. Or swinging shovels at the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5862 "2023-09-16T13:55:16Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Given the right circumstances modern soldiers could wind up throwing rocks. Tactics change with circumstance as well as technology. Horses! > **[How the ‘Horse Soldiers’ helped liberate Afghanistan from the Taliban 18...](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/10/18/how-the-horse-soldiers-helped-liberate-afghanistan-from-the-taliban-18-years-ago/)** > > On Oct. 19, 2001, a team of 12 Green Berets with the 5th Special Forces Group's Operational Detachment Alpha 595 were inserted into Afghanistan to liberate the region from the Taliban without tanks or trucks. Just horses. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5863 "2023-09-16T19:42:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > which means 33% less maintenance and repairs (at a minimum) requiring drydocks in the area. I’m not sure it isn’t a higher percentage. There were **two** dry dock berths taken out in the Russian navy’s main port of Sevastopol. The alternate ‘main’ port facility is in Novorossiysk. And I _think_ they only have a single drydock berth there. Can someone confirm? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5864 "2023-09-16T20:12:42Z")
Even better! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5865 "2023-09-17T05:05:24Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > The alternate ‘main’ port facility is in Novorossiysk. But Novorossiysk is in Krasnodar Krai, not Сrimea. UA would not attack Novorossiysk because it does not claim any part of Krasnodar as its own rightful territory. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5866 "2023-09-17T05:17:12Z")
??? Ukraine have launched loads of attacks on Russian territory and damaged a ship near Novorossiysk in [an attack a few weeks ago](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/image-of-russian-warships-hull-torn-open-by-ukrainian-drone-boat-emerges). ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5867 "2023-09-17T12:06:04Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I would hope the US is taking good notes. We’re seeing an entirely different style of war. The sea drones and extensive use of drone attacks throughout Ukraine will require significant changes in NATO training. I’ve heard people arguing for a while that modern missiles will make things like aircraft carriers obsolete. I’ve no informed opinion on that, but things like naval drones seem to reinforce that idea. But, it’s hard to imagine a major power war where navies can’t be used… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5868 "2023-09-17T12:57:11Z")
And please no more in this thread on conjecture about the future of warfare. **Moderating:** ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/5869 "2023-09-17T13:13:53Z")
Correct. So if/when the Black Sea fleet is forced to relocate their main base to avoid Ukranian strikes there they’ll be much further away from Ukraine (and consequently less of a threat). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=287) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=289)