# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/561 "2022-11-14T03:03:58Z")
So are there any semi-reliable figures yet on the toll Russia took (in both men and materiel) in the retreat? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/562 "2022-11-14T03:46:50Z")
No. Ukrainian officials haven’t said much. There’s the Ministry of Defense’s daily updates to Russian losses, which do show relatively high numbers over the past few days, but they’ve shown relatively high numbers for a couple weeks now mostly due to attempted Russian offensives around Donetsk City, Bahkmut, and Soledar. It’s impossible to guess how many casualties they think they inflicted. After the first wave of liberation videos which were almost entirely babas giving hugs and flowers to Ukrainian soldiers, there’ve been a steady stream of videos of captured heavy equipment and materiel. A couple ammo depots, a fair number of armoured vehicles, and lots and lots of burned out equipment that may well be from weeks or months ago. Even the captures could well be vehicles which weren’t operable enough for the Russians to drive out. In all, it does look like the withdrawal was executed fairly well. Some OSINT sources on Twitter have gone back and are now saying that it looks like they might have started moving equipment across the river as long ago as mid-October. This might have been an intelligence failure on the part of Ukraine/the West, in that had they realized they could have pushed harder earlier and messed up the withdrawal. Or maybe they intentionally let it happen in hopes of avoiding urban fighting in Kherson, calculating that it was worth letting the Russians get away to take Kherson intact without a big fight. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/563 "2022-11-14T04:03:19Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Or maybe they intentionally let it happen in hopes of avoiding urban fighting in Kherson, calculating that it was worth letting the Russians get away to take Kherson intact without a big fight. That would be a good judgment call. Who wants another Mariopul? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/564 "2022-11-14T04:18:04Z")
The fighting around Donetsk is intense. The Russians keep trying to break through. I haven’t seen that many attacks in Awhile. A lot of people must be dying. Russians even took back a village in Kherson. [![](https://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/Donetsk%20Battle%20Map%20Draft%20November%2013%2C%202022.png) ](https://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/Donetsk%20Battle%20Map%20Draft%20November%2013%2C%202022.png) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/565 "2022-11-14T04:25:26Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > … how thankful I am that the US hasn’t been invaded since 1812 … You would [off by more than](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Columbus_%281916%29) a century. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/566 "2022-11-14T04:42:50Z")
I’d forgotten about Pancho Villa’s men. Lieutenant George S. Patton had a small role in chasing Villa. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/567 "2022-11-14T04:54:25Z")
Does the [Japanese invasion of Alaska](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleutian_Islands_campaign) {1942) count? Alaska wasn’t a state, but it was a U.S. territory. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/568 "2022-11-14T04:57:51Z")
The US flag was still being flown over the [Commonwealth of the Philippines](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_the_Philippines) when the Japanese invaded and occupied it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/569 "2022-11-14T05:12:12Z")
That was a US colony, not part of the US. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/570 "2022-11-14T06:17:54Z")
Both Puerto Rico and the Northern Marianas are currently designated as commonwealths of the US. Are you saying that they are also not parts of the US? > **[Commonwealth (U.S. insular area)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_(U.S._insular_area))** > > Commonwealth is a term used by two unincorporated territories of the United States in their full official names, which are the Northern Mariana Islands, whose full name is Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, and Puerto Rico, which is named Commonwealth of Puerto Rico in English and Estado Libre Asociado de Puerto Rico in Spanish, translating to "Free Associated State of Puerto Rico." The term was also used by the Philippines during most of its period under U.S. sovereignty, when it wa... ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/571 "2022-11-14T07:01:47Z")
Apparently I’m not as safe from invasion as I thought. I’m still very thankful our closest border with Russia is separated by the Bering Sea. Ukraine has a front row seat. Anyway, back to the war. > **[Kherson fell quickly, but Ukraine’s progress east of the Dnipro will be harder](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/kherson-fell-quickly-but-ukraines-progress-east-of-the-dnipro-will-be-harder)** > > Forcing out Russia with minimal civilian casualties was an achievement, helped by the city’s isolated position > [@](#): > > Antonivsky and Nova Kakhovka are the only crossings of the Dnipro south of Ukrainian-held Zaporizhzhia city, and without them (or even if they were intact) it will be difficult and dangerous for Ukrainian counterattacks to press ahead there. A glance at the map has led an increasing number of commentators, western and Russian, to suggest an advance in the Zaporizhzhia sector towards Melitopol and Berdyansk is the obvious next point of counterattack. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/572 "2022-11-14T11:12:52Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > If our glorious soldiers just had superior élan they would sweep all before them!” Elan, you say? [![](https://preview.redd.it/y5y98o57psf31.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=d9289374e9f9daf5feafabaf91a79a6baceaef31) ](https://preview.redd.it/y5y98o57psf31.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=d9289374e9f9daf5feafabaf91a79a6baceaef31) Seems strangely relevant. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/573 "2022-11-14T14:48:15Z")
Zelensky visits Kherson. Brave guy. He doesn’t hide in a bunker. He would have performed in cities across Ukraine . It has to be difficult visiting now. The theatres are usually beautiful old buildings. > **[Biden and Xi condemn Russian nuclear threats; Zelenskiy visits liberated...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/nov/14/russia-ukraine-war-live-news-race-to-restore-power-and-water-in-kherson-murdered-civilians-found-zelenskiy-says?CMP=share_btn_link)** > > US and Chinese presidents agree nuclear war ‘should never be fought’, White House says; Zelenskiy accuses Russia of more than 400 war crimes ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/574 "2022-11-14T15:46:23Z")
I suspect he agreed for a pardon. Apparently a lot of prisoners feel the risk is worth getting out of prison. i.e. _The Dirty Dozen_. There’s a long history of law breakers joining armies to earn a new life. French Foreign Legion. So, if we see a very tall African-American in Russian uniform, fighting in Ukraine.🤔 Nah, she’s too high profile. Guardian feed > [@](#): > > **Zambia has asked Russia to explain how one of its citizens who had been serving a prison sentence in Moscow ended up on the battlefield in [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) where he was killed, Zambia’s foreign affairs minister said on Monday, Reuters reports.** ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/575 "2022-11-14T18:41:46Z")
There are rumors that some of the prisoners aren’t, by our definition, volunteers. There are several ways to coerce “volunteering”. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/576 "2022-11-14T19:12:46Z")
Truly barbaric. There really need to be some war crimes trials after this is over. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/577 "2022-11-14T20:34:47Z")
Indeed. Simply summary executions are bad enough. The Wagner Group seems to go out of their way to be egregiously atrocious. From the article: > The atrocities of the Wagnerites have been known for a while. And Prigozhin’s mercenaries have been using a sledgehammer for murders since the war in Syria. The evidence of how in 2017 in Syria, the Wagnerites beat a man to death, quartered the body and burned it may be found in the network. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/578 "2022-11-14T20:48:08Z")
HIGHLY unconfirmed!!! I am picking up some interwebs noise that **with some phantasy might** suggest that the Ukr have already moved over to the eastern/left bank of the Dnepro, coming from the south side of Kherson without having stopped in Kherson… If true, another great and unexpected move, coming from the black-sea-side … no idea how that would have happened and how big any eventual contingents would be … ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/579 "2022-11-14T21:11:52Z")
Interesting rumors. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ukrainian special forces are doing stuff across the river. I think it would be hard to hold territory or sustain an offensive from there without a secure crossing of the river for vehicles. > ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/580 "2022-11-14T22:10:16Z")
United Nations General Assembly votes on making Russia responsible for paying reparations to Ukraine: > > > > > Samuel Ramani @SamRamani2 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=30)